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Old 12-28-2012, 03:58 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dkp2LT View Post
March 16, 2012, Edmunds.com:

Evidence there’s at least a semi-seismic shift underway in the U.S. auto market: a source at General Motors Co. told us the the company’s engine-production data indicate GM built a half-million fewer V8 engines in 2011 than it did just five year earlier in 2006.

Last year, GM built approximately 1.15 million V8s in North America. That compares with the roughly 1.7 million V8s GM manufactured in 2006. The drop can be attributed to a number of factors, but it all adds up to one undeniable conclusion: our market is changing.

The number of fewer GM V8s is significant, but does have to be judged in the context of how far total sales dropped off in the past five years. In 2006, when GM made 1.7 million V8s, slightly more than 17 million new vehicles were sold. America’s new-vehicle sales plunged to 10.6 million in 2009 and “recovered” to slightly more than 13 million in 2011 – so GM’s production decline of a half-million V8s came amidst an overall market decline about about 4 million units. In 2006, GM’s market share was 23.9 percent, compared with 19.2 percent in 2011; you do the math on that one.

Beyond that, a portion of the dropoff in GM’s V8 production can be attributed to the broad decline in fullsize pickup and SUV sales brought on by the recession that started in late 2008. But since the recession, another significant trend has been underway: engine downsizing. It’s happening everywhere and isn’t likely to stop unless a crude-oil volcano arises from the Badlands to bring gasoline prices back to $2 a gallon. Ford’s major engine-downsizing initiative – mass fitment of EcoBoost engines – is kicking into high gear; the company said earlier this year it aims to triple production of EcoBoost 4-cylinders and V6s, offering EcoBoost engines in 11 models in 2012 compared with seven models last year.

The German luxury-sport brands no longer are shy about hawking 4-cylinder engines in this market – BMW’s new turbocharged 2-liter already is a staff favorite – and nearly every automaker is working the downsizing equation in some fashion. Heck, the world’s largest purveyor of V12s, Bentley, even is bending to the times and axing cylinders with the addition of V8-powered Continental GT and GTC convertibles – even if its new 4-liter twin-turbo V8 does make 500 horsepower.

In fact, V8 installations for vehicles built in North America hit an all-time low in 2010, according to industry data source extraordinaire Wardsauto.com. Just 20.8 percent of vehicles built in North America in 2010 were fitted with V8s, Ward’s said, although the ratio did rise to 22.5 percent for the ’11 model year. In 2001, 26.5 percent of vehicles built in North America were fitted with V8s.

– Bill Visnic, senior editor, Edmunds.com
I feel depressed after reading that.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:09 PM   #30
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I feel depressed after reading that.
IMO we don't need to worry about the Corvette at all & for a while for the Camaro. I think where you see changes is what we would consider DD's that either won't have a V8 option or most people won't buy the V8.

But I have to believe the Camaro, Mustang & Challenger are safe for some time - and probably a really long time for the Corvette.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:15 PM   #31
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I'll go out on a limb and say i don't believe there will EVER be a time when there is no V8 available in a Camaro. They'll kill the car all together before they take the v8 from its options sheet.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #32
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The V8 isn't going any where. CAFE means Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It is an average of all the cars a company produces, it doesn't mean every car has to be at that number or higher. Cars like the Volt and the Eco models pull the average up so that there is room for performance models. Even the fuel economy for the V8 equipped vehicles are improving. The biggest reason we know the V8 isn't going any where is the existence of the Gen V V8. Development costs for a new generation LS V8 are huge. No company would make an investment like that if they were planning on not using them extensively for the foreseeable future.
This and then all they have to do is offer 12 different volt models. That'll raise the company average way up for the Vette's and the Camaro's.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:55 PM   #33
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This and then all they have to do is offer 12 different volt models. That'll raise the company average way up for the Vette's and the Camaro's.
again, what you don't get is that the people who push this stuff don't want V8's. they don't like SUV's, Trucks or sports cars. they want all vehicles to be some version of a volt. they can't do that all at once, so they simply take an incremental approach. regardless of how efficient company fleets were to become, they'll always take the position that they can be more efficient.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:00 PM   #34
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Camaro rumor mill history
in 1979-3rd gen to be FWD no V8
in 1991-4th gen to be FWD no V8
in 2000-5th gen (if made) FOR SURE FWD no V8
in 2013-6th gen to be FWD no V8
It's a track record like a middle east peace agreement.
lol
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:14 PM   #35
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There will always be a v8.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:21 PM   #36
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There will be V8's forever. Right now Detroit is all about the muscle NO Way any of these 3 drop the V8 option during this muscle war. What is nice is the V6 is becoming a real force with the Indy racing league getting up to 700 horsepower out of these frowned upon "6 bangers" , If they could make a Camaro with 450 HP and 35/40 miles a gallon that would be pretty sweet .
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:26 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by THUMPER20X View Post
Camaro rumor mill history
in 1979-3rd gen to be FWD no V8
in 1991-4th gen to be FWD no V8
in 2000-5th gen (if made) FOR SURE FWD no V8
in 2013-6th gen to be FWD no V8
It's a track record like a middle east peace agreement.
lol
And the mid engined Corvette.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:31 PM   #38
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I would say that V8's will be limited eventually to special applications such as larger trucks, and sports cars, like the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette. It may even have to be limited editions of those cars.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:49 PM   #39
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I agree, it won't die out completely but I can see around 2025 when CAFE is really stepping making cars have 54+ mpg, that V8s will be for the rich only. Forget the working man affording a V8 in this time frame. It'll be for upper class to drive IMO as it is for those who drive vettes. Not all Vette drivers are upper class btw. I just think that the V8 will probably slow in production to about 1000-2000 a yr as like that of a ZL-1 ect. It won't be extinct, just a dream for many. Get em while they're hot!
THIS. IS. BRILLIANT. LOGIC.

Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together will see that doubling the mileage requirement in 12 years is going to mean that they will need to add a lot of exotic technology to all cars, plus sell lotfulls of volts and "eco" things to make up for each V8.

To make up for a V8 getting 35MPG in 2025, they would need to sell "offsetting" 55MPG cars at a 20:1 ratio to get an average of 54.

Also remember that the V8 car is now competing for the sliver of sub-54MPG of production capacity with pickups and SUVs that will also not get 54MPG.

So, the V8 people will be paying extra $$$ for all the exotic tech and materials in their cars to get them to get as much as 35MPG, then they will have to pay a premium price to help lower the retail prices of the less desireable "eco" cars, so enough saps will buy them to offset their V8 car.

In essence, the V8 price will "necessarily skyrocket" in order to discourage "bad consumer choices" and subsidize the offsetting econoboxes.

Why is this so hard for some people to grasp?
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:56 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mikeyg36 View Post
I feel depressed after reading that.
The writer talks about the "market changing" as if it is just happening spontaneously all by itself, and what is happening is not due to artificial manipulations.

I don't know if I am saddened more by the statistics presented by the author, or the sad state of media/journalism these days.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:00 PM   #41
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again, what you don't get is that the people who push this stuff don't want V8's. they don't like SUV's, Trucks or sports cars. they want all vehicles to be some version of a volt. they can't do that all at once, so they simply take an incremental approach. regardless of how efficient company fleets were to become, they'll always take the position that they can be more efficient.
if you dig into the writing of these people, you will see they actually don't even want us driving volts and eco cars. The endgame is to make personal cars so cost prohibitive that everyone moves to dense cities with public transportation. They deride people who live in the suburbs and commute.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:58 PM   #42
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Just for the hell of it, I want to take a step back for a minute...

Why does it have to be about how many cylinders you have (if any)? Like many have already said. If GM can make a 6 cylinder engine that cranks out just as much, if not more that an 8 and gets good mileage to boot, why is it a bad thing. If you look at the raw power, or muscle I guess we are talking about here, as long as it is substantial, why does it matter what kind of engine it is coming from.

Seems some people are stuck in the belief that just because there is a push for more efficient vehicles that we are all going to end up driving something that looks, feels, handles, and performs like a Prius. Even if some day we go all electric, does that mean they will do away with "performance/muscle" cars? As long as there is a market for this kind of vehicle, I believe they will be made. Look at stuff like what Tesla is doing. Aren't those very fast, high performance cars? Don't they look pretty bad ass (IMO) ? And they don't have ANY cylinders?
Wasn't their first run roadsters doing the quarter mile in the mid 11s? Wouldn't that qualify as being muscle? Isn't that faster than most standard v8s? Yes, I know that it is a very expensive super car.... but my point is, it is possible to make fast, high performance, bad ass, good looking cars that don't have to burn a ton of Dino juice.

In ten years I believe that we will still have high performance, good looking cars that are still obtainable by the middle class man (assuming there is still a middle class) that will also burn less foreign oil and pump less smoke into the air we must all breathe. Power is power, why is it so important as to how it is created? Times change, soon we find out new and improved, more efficient ways of doing things.

When the internal combustion engine goes obsolete, something else will take its place. 400hp is 400hp, no matter how much gas it does or doest burn, and how many cylinders it takes (if any) to do it. In 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 years, man will still want to go fast as he can ,and will find a way to do it with the technology available at that time.

I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, or start a political or otherwise debate. I'm just saying... technology will forever change and evolve, and we have to roll with it. As long as people will demand fast, good looking cars, and there is money to be made, they WILL find a way to make them. I want my space ship to go warp 10, even if it is running on dylithium crystals instead of old fashioned petroleum.
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If you'd rather drive a civic that eats your soul than a camaro that eats your wallet then thats your choice.
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