[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

That is 100% untrue. Where did you learn economics. These manufactures have different divisions and corporations setup up separately from their home base in their home countries. The fact that about 100k people have well paying jobs that are paying their bills and injecting their money INTO the unites states helps OUR country.

What is HURTING american workers and OUR economy is having chinese parts shipped to mexico and having the completed vehicles allocated to dealers to save a buck and only GM capitalizes. Do you go and buy that 2k dollar made in america bbq grill or did ya buy the one on sale made in china for 199? Thought so. Not everything can be made american and if it were many people bitching like you wouldnt go out of your way to spend the extra money

$2000 Vs. $199 grill. Where did you learn economics? An american made grill will no way in hell be $1800 difference. And if that American made grill was $100 more and I knew it was made in America verses a similar one from China I would still buy American if it means keeping jobs in America!

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Guess the Gen5 Camaro isn't American either. Sure American car company, but built in Canada. None of which has anything to do with GM's current excuses for it's current failures.

Well I guess some first Gen Camaros are not American either ...right? Some were made in Canadian plants. GM Ford and Chrysler have had Canadian plants for 80 years.

[Deputy Dog]

I just heard on the radio that Trump is in talks with GM. The Youngstown plant is being talked about being reallocated to build a different car. Whether it happens or not I don't know but just heard it. It would be nice if those jobs could be saved.

[396ssrat]

I hate to keep bringing up this point but here it is, one more time... I worked a good couple of decades at a GM factory building Chevrolets and a few other brands. Every single day of the week they would preach about if we don't come out 1st in quality they will close down the plant. We came in first in quality the majority of the time I was employed there. My job was metal finishing, working lead and removing dents and dings. I took great pride in my job because of my love for the automobile. One year we built Vega's and wouldn't ya know that the sheet metal was coming out of Boxcars with the bolt holes misstamped at
Fisher body. My job at that time was to use an acetylene torch to oblong the holes where they could be attached to the "frame". It's pretty hard to build a quality product when you get thousands of parts that don't fit.
Needless to say, after GM sent us various failed designs of cars that the public didn't want "for obvious reasons" they shuttered our plant. Of course, seeing our own employees showing up for work in Imports didn't help things at all.
I have a 2011 Silverado, it has a sound drivetrain and has been very dependable transportation. BUT it is unfortunate that the trucks and SUV's built between 2007 and 2013 use cheap offshore made dashes which are notorious for cracking. My truck, with a mere 46k miles on it began to crack and it continues. I asked GM to fix it and their response is "It is Cosmetic" and you'll have to pay for it yourself. Well my thoughts are... No you will pay for it GM because I'll never buy another of your junk. My 1966 Chevelle dash is in much much better shape than my truck. That is unacceptable and exactly why GM is tanking. I thought they might have changed their thing once Barra came on board but recent history shows that they learned nothing from the past. Now here we are again, killing American livelihoods.

[protovack]

Nothing like a little corporate restructuring to bring all the GM naysayers out of the woodwork to bash GM and predict its failure. Funny, you'd never know that there are so many intelligent, visionary executives sitting around on Camaro6.com who could solve all of GMs problems in 5 minutes because they're so much smarter than the people running a global corporation that sells hundreds of thousands of cars every year. I appreciate the critical viewpoint, and its important to keep GM accountable, absolutely. But the level of discourse in this thread is grade school level at best. Most people have absolutely no clue what kinds of sacrifices and hard decisions it takes to keep a huge company running and thriving, in a market where there is such insane competition. All the companies have their issues, even the german luxury makers have big issues. VW for god's sake there are hundreds of thousands of VW cars sitting rotting in parking lots right now due to essentially corporate fraud on a grand scale.

People in the US have this myopic view of the world where GM is evil, GM is the only car company in the world with problems, GM is sponging off the american taxpayers which is a load of BS, often spoken by people with an agenda to push. The euro companies have it stupidly simple compared to GM--all their employees live in semi-socialist nanny states and they have healthcare and benefits all guaranteed by the government already. GM has provided huge amounts of economic growth in this country and has stuck around in places where nobody else would go. You don't think the other companies try to play the system? The ONLY reason toyota and others have plants in the USA is because those states basically said we'll give you a free ride. If they hadn't been willing to do that, the companies would be somewhere else too. It's essentially a repeat of history in a different place. Some day, the Toyota plant in Kentucky will close and leave a few thousand people without jobs.

One must deal in economic realities. GM can't stay in Detroit forever, or Oshawa forever. As long as you want to show up on a Chevrolet lot and expect to walk away with a car for thousands less than MSRP every time, then you have to deal with the consequences of those type of expectations. Paying the healthcare costs and benefits for American workers is super expensive. I wonder how many people would actually choose to pay more for their car knowing that it was made in the USA by workers with great stable jobs with benefits. Sure a lot of people will claim of course they would, but when it comes down to signing the papers, people want to pay as little as possible and get as much as possible.

[396ssrat]

Yes it sure is. Keep in mind, it isn't Toyota shuttering factories.

[Bongos2U]

Off topic but relevant...AutoNews has an article that states Flat Rock Assembly in Michigan will be down to one shift from two.

Flat Rock assembles two vehicles...The Mustang and Lincoln Continental. The Lincoln is going to be discontinued...Leaving Flat rock to produce the Mustang for one shift.

Remember Lordstown, it was running on three shifts to produce the Cruze a couple of years ago, was reduced to one. We know what happened to Lordstown when it was producing only one vehicle.

I'm not a Ford fan, but I don't think they would ever discontinue the Mustang. They will have it assembled at another plant, if they shutter Flat Rock. Or give Flat Rock another vehicle to build alongside the Mustang.

Nice quote in the article from Debbie Dingell, R-MI:

"While I am deeply disturbed at the elimination of a shift in my district, I appreciate Ford’s concern for their employees and their commitment to keeping jobs in the U.S".

Her comment seems like it is a thinly veiled swipe at GM.

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by protovack

Nothing like a little corporate restructuring to bring all the GM naysayers out of the woodwork to bash GM and predict its failure. Funny, you'd never know that there are so many intelligent, visionary executives sitting around on Camaro6.com who could solve all of GMs problems in 5 minutes because they're so much smarter than the people running a global corporation that sells hundreds of thousands of cars every year. ...

Funny stuff.
On motorcycle forums I have referred to those similar experts as the Keyboard Captains of Industry. Feel free to use that nomenclature.
Carry on.

[ecko04]

Unfortunately we’re in the minority here. The vast majority of the car buying public don’t share our thought of shoving more hp into a car, RWD and the sweet sweet sound of a car belting America as it rips down 1320ft.

TBH, I’m ok with that. Fuel efficiency has greatly improved and people want to sit higher on the roads with SUVs and CUVs. And while many people cannot presently afford an electric car, I’m sure, the same as GM is as well, that as the technology moves more mainstream they will become more common and more affordable so they’re investing in the future as opposed to the past.

They didn’t rule out ever producing sedans again, they simply said for now it’s not where the money is and we need the volume selling models to bring in revenue. And if I look at what I see on the roads now, if you’re not Honda or Nissan or Toyota or Kia/Hyundai then your mainstream sedans aren’t filling the roadways.

I’m just glad for all the doom and gloom and “Keyboard Captains” out there, we still have our sports/pony/muscle cars as no manufacturer has stated that they won’t continue on which brings a certain level of calm. They haven’t completely forgotten about our little segment even as they reorganize everything else.

[samurai]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

I'm not a Ford fan, but I don't think they would ever discontinue the Mustang. They will have it assembled at another plant, if they shutter Flat Rock. Or give Flat Rock another vehicle to build alongside the Mustang.

Ford already said Mustang will stay besides their new SUV lineup. Current rumors say they will build 4-doors Mustangs too, so they bascially scrap Taurus, Fusions, etc. for more Mustang variants. If they built them all in Flatrock the plant should be fine

Originally Posted by protovack

Funny, you'd never know that there are so many intelligent, visionary executives sitting around on Camaro6.com who could solve all of GMs problems in 5 minutes because they're so much smarter than the people running a global corporation that sells hundreds of thousands of cars every year.

At least for the Camaro there are so many things that easily can be fixed to push sales.



Just take a quick look at the YouTube page of Chevrolet. The last time they released a video for the Camaro was 2,5 years ago. To this date they have not released any marketing video for the 2019 Camaro. Chevy has the best sportscar for the price on the whole market but has absolutely no interest in showing or telling people that, creating exitement for the car.



Now take a look what video Dodge release for their muscle lineup in the last 2 months (TWO MONTHS!), these are video that actually want you drive these vehicles and pump up your adrenaline.






Also when you make a refresh, don't use a design that people already hated 2 years ago

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Doc

You don't know who Number 3 is, do you... he knows more about GM and the auto industry than you will ever know. Don't be so rude. He actually DOES know more about advertising inside GM than probably any of us do.

Advertising costs money, and you have to sell vehicles to pay for that. If the vehicles aren't selling, the money for advertising isn't there, and without advertising the sales suffer...it's one of those vicious cycles. GM hasn't done well with advertising for a LONG time. The advertising for the 5th gen was the Transformer movie and Bumblebee, which was really successful but it had nothing to do with GM's advertising. Has GM even run an ad for the 6th gen? I can't remember ever even seeing one. If I did, it obviously didn't make a big impression.

Last year I bought an AWD Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Lusso, not because I was an Alfa fan (I've never been or owned one) but because I saw a great ad on TV. I was watching and listening to the new Giulia in the ad and I thought: "Ooh! I have to go look at those!" I did, did a test drive, and now I own one.

GM needs to hire a top notch advertising agency. The "real people" ads are so lame, they should be used as an example of how NOT to advertise something.

Rudeness aside, you're right about the Dodge ads. They make you want to go check one out. GM needs to do something like that. Grab the ad guys and take them around for a few laps in a 650 hp Camaro, then say "Ok, now take what you just felt, and make it into an ad". They have to do something; the bar has been set so low with the "real people" ads, that ANYthing would be an improvement.

I do not care who he is, nor do I care about being rude. People need to stop being so hurt about comments and look at reality and the facts. Quit being so emotional.

You agree with me. So why defend him or "be nice" when his perception is so out of touch with reality, frankly, only being rude and straight forward may get him to rethink everything?

I am making a very clear point based on what is reality, not what his expertise and experience says. The company I work for never had to crawl to the government to beg for money to keep the lights on, and we're pretty old. To be honest, there's very few people who've worked for GM in the past 40 years that you could say actually know how to run a business successfully. Does Apple run to GM to pick executives? I do not care if he's Mary Barra. His assessment of this is wrong. Not my opinion, fact.

That is part of what really makes GM such an infuriating company. People like him with an incredibly out of touch vision of what reality is.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by protovack

People in the US have this myopic view of the world where GM is evil, GM is the only car company in the world with problems . . .

If anything, that's a view of big business and "corporate" in general. Not just GM, or just "car companies".


Norm

[Bluecyclone]

I agree to that Norm. I research topics keeping in mind, what is the big picture? Corporate structure is flawed, in my opinion, and all the Chiefs, COO, CEO, CFO ect. need to enjoy a pay rate decrease. These funds could pay blue collar people "Living wages".

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

$2000 Vs. $199 grill. Where did you learn economics? An american made grill will no way in hell be $1800 difference. And if that American made grill was $100 more and I knew it was made in America verses a similar one from China I would still buy American if it means keeping jobs in America!

Would you pay $3000 for an "American" TV vs. $1500 for the same specs "Korean made" TV? How about $2000 vs. $1500?

How about $500,000 for a house built by 5th generation, English only speaking citizens, vs. the same exact house next door for $400,000 built by Juan, Jose and Federico, who's boss may or may not have validated their "status"?

What are "American made" grill brands? (and yes, you can buy a $7000.00 American Made grill, i.e. Lynx and Alfresco)

Weber (a staunchly "American Made" company, as an example of our global economy, makes (assembles) all their spirit and genesis (their two low end series) in China, their Summit series is assembled in the US with globally sourced parts, i.e. China, is that "Made in America?"

You think that $1500 gun safe is made in America...it's not. The company only makes their $5000 safes in America.

The point is, we live in a global economy, and many companies are in a constant battle to provide comparable products at a cheaper price to gain sales and market share. Sometimes i think it's quite ridiculous and I'd pay an extra $2 or so for a pack of strawberries from California over a pack from Mexico.
However, IMO, when it comes to many other consumer items, for them to be made in America and for that company to compete in the market, their margins would be too small to be sustainable, and for them to stay in business and keep employees, they simply have to go outside of this country. So the trade off is keeping the principle of "I will absolutely be made in America" and therefore going out of business out of spite, or increase margins and keep your business running and keep Americans employed by embracing the global economic reality.