[revychevy]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

with the power out of today's 4 cyls and 6 cyls I have no problem with it. the first gens had 6's that made today's 4 cyls look like a ZL1.

This is what I mean, we are comparing cars now to cars 50 years ago.
Sure. A BLOWN four banger has more power than 6 cylinders 50 YEARS AGO!

Today's cell phones have more computing power than NASA mission control 50 YEARS AGO!

ANYTHING blown can be made fast-- you might as well spray it TOO and say it's more powerful than a V8!

Compare the turbo 4 of today's performance to a blown 6.2 liter LS3. How
It's not better.
Compare it to a turbo V6 of today.
Not better.

That's what I'm talking about, I can see that the govt. Wants to make everyone drive an electric appliance to save gas for (I don't know who?!).
But don't try to convince me the modern 4 banger is the greatest engine in the world by comparing it to stuff 50 years ago, when there is NO technology today that's not better than the 1960's!

[mr02Z/28]

Are we not looking to add to, and improve the horsepower wars ??? I don't see any problem with any Turbo, S/C or even Nitrous sprayed cars, no matter what cubic inch determination if it makes more HP and improves the acceleration and top speed of our Camaro ......

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by revychevy

One, I WAS mostly joking. That's this thing called SARCASM. You should recognize it. You use it a lot.

Sorry...i guess my sarcasm-o-meter was malfunctioning on that one. The Spark comment had me wondering. Maybe ive seen too many other crazy comments lately.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by revychevy

This is what I mean, we are comparing cars now to cars 50 years ago.
Sure. A BLOWN four banger has more power than 6 cylinders 50 YEARS AGO!

Today's cell phones have more computing power than NASA mission control 50 YEARS AGO!

ANYTHING blown can be made fast-- you might as well spray it TOO and say it's more powerful than a V8!

Compare the turbo 4 of today's performance to a blown 6.2 liter LS3. How
It's not better.
Compare it to a turbo V6 of today.
Not better.

That's what I'm talking about, I can see that the govt. Wants to make everyone drive an electric appliance to save gas for (I don't know who?!).
But don't try to convince me the modern 4 banger is the greatest engine in the world by comparing it to stuff 50 years ago, when there is NO technology today that's not better than the 1960's!

I wasn't even talking about the blown ones.

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

I wasn't even talking about the blown ones.

The four cylinder engines that have power are ALL FI.
Otherwise we are talking about the Chevy spark I was teasing about.
(I trust you are NOT saying that an 84 hp to the crank car is like a ZL1 compared to, well... Anything.

[SlingShot]

This whole topic is stupid ... GM is gonna do what GM is gonna do. As long as there are other options available, who really gives a crap if there is a four banger as the base? As far as Al goes, sorry but he works for a living and follows orders just like the rest of us, after all someone is signing his pay check as well.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

This whole topic is stupid ... GM is gonna do what GM is gonna do. As long as there are other options available, who really gives a crap if there is a four banger as the base? As far as Al goes, sorry but he works for a living and follows orders just like the rest of us, after all someone is signing his pay check as well.

It's really not about GM. It's about the market. Who is going to want (buy) a 4 cylinder Camaro. A question that's still not answered.

I know it seems inevitable to some people that we'll all be driving smart cars tomorrow (sport versions come with rally stripes!), but we won't.

[Synerbee]

You realize that most Camaros are sold to non-car people and they don't care what's under the hood

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by Synerbee

You realize that most Camaros are sold to non-car people and they don't care what's under the hood

If this is truly the case then they could put a turd four cylinder under the hood for all the trims. To heck with turbo 4rs AND V8s. And no one will complain. Riiiiiiight. The Camaro is known as a performance car. A pony car, and a muscle car. People who positively absolutely don't care what's under the hood, and are looking for the best gas mileage and cheapest price-- don't shop Camaro.

They shop econo cars or green cars.

Even non gear head "secretaries" who shop Camaro are looking for some Vrooom!

That's the damn truth.

[OperativeXIV]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

It's really not about GM. It's about the market. Who is going to want (buy) a 4 cylinder Camaro. A question that's still not answered.

I know it seems inevitable to some people that we'll all be driving smart cars tomorrow (sport versions come with rally stripes!), but we won't.

People who want sporty cars but better MPG. People who don't care about what type of engine a car has and couldn't tell a fender from a catch can but *love!* the look of the car (<-- that was me 2 years ago). People who look at it and think "Hey! This 4 cylinder has 320 horse power and outperforms my V8 from 10 years ago - what a steal!". Europeans and every other market outside the US since they don't have as good a deal on gas and have much tighter regulations than the US does. Kids fresh out of college that really want a Camaro but can't spend the extra money for a V8. Secretaries.

The anonymous majority of buyers that make up the owners of cheaper, less performance based Camaros past, present, and future, that don't care about quarter miles times or dragstrips and A) Allow the Camaro to meet its CAFE rating even WITH the big V8s in the upper tier, and B) Pay for the R&D for the other group of us that DO care about performance.

Over the life of this forum, there have been 85,732 people that joined, and according to this post, there have been nearly 400,000 5th generations produced since April 2009. There are probably a lot of members of this forum happy with their V6's, that would also translate into a group of people that would be perfectly happy with their Turbo 4s if they come out. That's out of the extreme end of the crowd that are enthusiasts and take the time to come to a forum like this. I would bet you a reasonable sum of money that of the other 315,000 people that havn't come to this forum, probably 2/3rds of them don't care if it has 4, 6, or 8 cylinders and just want to look cool cruising around in their peppy, really neat car.

The people whose lives depend on the decision of whether to make a turbo 4 or not to make a turbo 4 have run the numbers, and if they even decide to make one then that means that they have deemed there is a viable market for it.

Seriously, these are all points that have been made throughout this topic and a lot of them are just common sense. Saying that the question hasn't been answered yet just says you aren't willing to accept the answer when you read it, and saying that there isn't a market for a 4 cylinder is just obtuse. There's a market for V6s and the new 4's perform just as well as they do (if not better?).



BTW, I'm not rooting for them to put a 4 cylinder in the Camaro. 19 months ago I couldn't have cared less if it had 1 cylinder or 11 cylinder, but at the moment I'm looking to get a V8 in the coming months because anything less for me just isn't cutting it. My Dad was a muscle car fan back in the day and he also had the V8 - his response to possibly putting a 4 cylinder in a Camaro and the Mustangs 4 Cyl. was "That just seems kinda... wrong" - and I couldn't agree more. However, if having a high MPG turbo 4 in the lower end models satisfies CAFE and allows them to put 600+ HP V8s in the next generation ZL1, I guess I'm enthusiastically all for them.

[revychevy]

Let's put this in it and be done !

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/sema-c...ects-the-norm/

[ChrisBlair]

I'm wanting a 4 cyl Camaro just to piss all y'all off at this point!

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

It's really not about GM. It's about the market. Who is going to want (buy) a 4 cylinder Camaro. A question that's still not answered.

I know it seems inevitable to some people that we'll all be driving smart cars tomorrow (sport versions come with rally stripes!), but we won't.

I have answered this question multiple times, but you seem to ignore it....so once again here it is.

Maybe if you at least reply I'll know you saw this lol

I can certainly see a couple groups that could gravitate towards a 4 cylinder turbo Camaro (and also including the Mustang crowd in this)

1) Young kids or young adults that are currently somewhat into the tuner scene, and like the turbo 4s because of their tuning potential. They would feel more at home with this engine. This is the generation that GM and Ford really need to capture if they want these models to continue for another couple generations or longer.

2) The people that want a good balance of performance and fuel economy. Over 300HP and 300TQ and 30+ MPG highway. Your not currently getting that in any other pony car. Its a good balance of the two, and so for those out there that don't care what's under the hood as long as it is fun to drive...they will certainly be interested.

3) I'm sure there are lots of V6 owners that would consider a turbo 4 if they feel they can't swing the cost of the V8 for the extra performance.

So there you have it....put that all together and that is a large group of people.

Originally Posted by OperativeXIV

Seriously, these are all points that have been made throughout this topic and a lot of them are just common sense. Saying that the question hasn't been answered yet just says you aren't willing to accept the answer when you read it, and saying that there isn't a market for a 4 cylinder is just obtuse. There's a market for V6s and the new 4's perform just as well as they do (if not better?).

Exactly.


Now...let me again speak for myself. I feel the turbo 4 cylinder pony cars could certainly perform well, and sell decent, especially after they catch on. Is that what I want right now? Not really. I'd rather have a really potent N/A V6...but honestly I'm not sure why. Maybe because its what I know right now.

But the only way in my mind that GM could NOT offer a turbo 4 cylinder and stay competitive (performance and efficiency) with a V6 would be to offer a large displacement 60 degree V6 in the 3.7 - 3.9 range. Give it all the technology of today's V6 + cylinder deactivation. DOD is harder to do on the 60 degree than the 90 degree engines from what I understand, but it can be done. I could see this engine returning over 30mpg on the highway, but with a max output of say 340 - 350 HP and 290 - 300 TQ.

I would love something like that in a 3,400lb-ish car. But even so, that V6 would still be down on torque, especially in the lower rpms versus Ford's 2.3 turbo 4....but it would be faster on the top end. If the 2.3 turbo gets tuned...well then its game over.

[fussboss]

Originally Posted by trewyn15

why would anyone make another thread on this?