6.2L shame or not.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by The Dutchman

That's what she said.

HI YO!!

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Actually a Coyote large enough to run up to 7.0L would only be about 1.5 inches longer and about 3/4 of an inch wider...

Then why didn't Ford do it? Perhaps they were pinching pennies? Do they not care about their racers?

Doesn't really matter. When I was younger, I though everything shiny and new was automatically better. What experience has taught me in many different areas is that the simplest solution is generally the most elegant, most efficient and most productive over the long haul.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by CamaroCracka

Then why didn't Ford do it? Perhaps they were pinching pennies? Do they not care about their racers?

Doesn't really matter. When I was younger, I though everything shiny and new was automatically better. What experience has taught me in many different areas is that the simplest solution is generally the most elegant, most efficient and most productive over the long haul.

The production line at their Romeo engine plant, where the Coyote is produced, only will support roughly the existing bore spacing. In order to produce a larger engine they'd have to invest a lot of money into the plant.

It's the same reason GM has stuck with the same bore spacing/bore centers for so long.

[CamaroCracka]

Well thank God GM invested in tooling that supported a 7L engine from the git go.

[SabotAndHeat]

From a consumer / modder point of view, I feel that the LS blocks are very accessible for hardware modifications. Love my LS3.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by MikosV6

If the Coyote 5.0L had the same displacement as the LS3/L99, it would be putting out power figures greater than even the supercharged 6.2L LSA.

Ah, the "what if" game.

If the Coyote was 6.2L, it would be so gigantic and so expensive that Chevy could add 2 more cylinders to their motor and just put a V10 in the cars.

Originally Posted by cc-rider

But the Coyote is a more tchnologically advanced engine and will make more power...liter for liter....pound of boost for pound of boost....whatever way you want to measure.

The Coyote will make less power per valve, less power per camshaft and less power per dollar. So no, actually.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

You're a bit misinformed. Spend some time on Mustang sites, like SVT Performance, and you'll see people who do in fact built the Coyote. You don't find many strokers due to the very limited bore availability (5.2 is about the largest possible right now)..and unless you're really, really running boost..you don't need to tear the motor down to build it up stronger..stock Coyote bottom ends can take 650+ WHP easy.

People swap cams on the Coyote less frequently, yes, but it does happen quite a bit. The Cobra Jet and Comp Stage 2/3 cams are popular, and usually don't require head modifications to run, except maybe valve springs.

A cam swap on a Coyote will run you around $2,000 with tuning, where on a LS3 it'll be about..$700 with tuning, or on a L99 about $1,400 due to the VVT, AFM delete, valve springs and tuning. It's not like the old days where a cam swap was a $250 job vs a $2,000 Coyote cam job...they're all very expensive now.

Yes, someone somewhere does internal modifications on the Coyote. It's a generalization. Very few people do it because it's so incredibly cost prohibitive. The fact that you've actually taken the time to respond in detail to a clear generalization troubles me

This is why Coyote owners go FI almost every time.

[essess]

What are we talking about with internal mods here? If were talking a built lower end, just as many people do it and the cost is a wash between the 2. If were talking cylinder heads, no need to on the coyote cause flows enough to support big power, if your getting crazy, they can be sent out and ported. The camshaft argument is getting old, most do not swap cams because the stockers flow very well and the hp bump from big cams like comp stage 3's is maybe 30 at best. Mostly only the guys doing 10 sec n/a setups are messing with cams, if going forced induction, stock heads/cams can get you into the nines so why blow the money on it

[CamaroCracka]

The original question was is the LS3 inferior to the Coyote, and the answer is certainly not.

ChocoTaco outlined many of the reasons previously and SpeedIsLife informed us there is limitation on how much the displacement can be increased in the Coyote.

We did not discuss longevity issues associated with higher revving engines vs a larger displacement lower revving option. FI guys frequently used keeping the revs down as an argument to go FI over cammed, and the argument still applies here.

If I had a new Mustang, of course I would mod the Coyote in it's current configuration with the mods that gave me the most bang for the buck. It would make no more sense to put an LS in a new Mustang than put a Coyote in a Camaro or Vette. Hell go E85 with N2O and you will likely kill most of the competition, but the same could be said for the LS3.

Building a Coyote is apparently prohibitively expense compared to an LS, so you use the truck block instead of a true Coyote motor. Perhaps as more Ford trucks hit the junk yard, the cost will come down for the Ford guys and they can begin swapping the latest modulars into their Fox bodies and T-buckets. However, with the advent of the EcoBoost in Ford trucks, that may never happen. They could end up swapping turbo motors instead. In the mean time, they continue to use LS engines.

The bottom line is the LS motor has well established it's legendary performance, reliability, and popularity while the jury is still out on the Coyote.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Jasper

When I first got my car I was feeling proud to have an LS3 which came from the mighty Vette. Sure it's huge and therefore sucks gas but I figured it was a great reliable engine. But i've been feeling a bit depressed as of late when reading people on other sites claiming how antiquated the engine is (pushrod) and how Ford is much better with the Coyote and only needing 5L to get similar power.

But I had a look at the fuel economy specs and the 6.2L engine betters Fords 5L in the city and falls only 1MPG short on Hiway. So then I thought, The old pushrod makes about the same power but consumes pretty much the same gas despite the extra 1.2L and is a physically a smaller engine. So is it really that bad? Then there's the added perks of it being easier to work on, less moving parts etc.

I know the future is direct inject and VVT but I guess for now, I'm not really that displeased with the LS3 after all.
J

Ask them( The 5Bros)how they like putting on a set of headers in their driveway or doing a cam swap themselves.

The LS engines are affordable,reliable,powerful and easily modified by mechanically inclined owners in their own garage.

There is a reason LS engines are the most swapped current engine available.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by essess

What are we talking about with internal mods here? If were talking a built lower end, just as many people do it and the cost is a wash between the 2. If were talking cylinder heads, no need to on the coyote cause flows enough to support big power, if your getting crazy, they can be sent out and ported. The camshaft argument is getting old, most do not swap cams because the stockers flow very well and the hp bump from big cams like comp stage 3's is maybe 30 at best. Mostly only the guys doing 10 sec n/a setups are messing with cams, if going forced induction, stock heads/cams can get you into the nines so why blow the money on it

Not really the Coyote would need to be sleeved to increase the bore.

That is very expensive.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Jasper

When I first got my car I was feeling proud to have an LS3 which came from the mighty Vette. Sure it's huge and therefore sucks gas but I figured it was a great reliable engine. But i've been feeling a bit depressed as of late when reading people on other sites claiming how antiquated the engine is (pushrod) and how Ford is much better with the Coyote and only needing 5L to get similar power.

J

Don't waste any time worrying over blind fanboy opinions. There will always be those who put down what's different from theirs, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about that.


Norm

[Joseph1LE]

Hilarious when people use the "pushrods are outdated" argument... Don't pay those people any mind. They don't know what they're talking about. Nothing beat the simplicity, compact size, and bang for the buck value of the LS engine.

[qcman]

Originally Posted by Joseph1LE

Hilarious when people use the "pushrods are outdated" argument... Don't pay those people any mind. They don't know what they're talking about. Nothing beat the simplicity, compact size, and bang for the buck value of the LS engine.

True and the fact that the "old" pushrod has a lot less moving mass and the reason it gets equal fuel economy with a larger displacement.