[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

The goal of every car company is to build the platform that appeals to the most people. They want as many sales as possible, period. For stock prices to increase, revenues and profits must increase on an average year-over-year basis. The #1 mission of every business is to appease shareholders.

If the 6th Gen undersells the 5th Gen, that's a catastrophic error because it goes against the #1 mission of the company.

But as stated numerous times, maybe the Gen6 is generating more profit on less volume

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

But as stated numerous times, maybe the Gen6 is generating more profit on less volume

It's possible, yes. But when you take your fixed costs and divide that by fewer units than you planned (20% less?) you aren't still making more profit than you planned.

But for all we know GM's plan was to sell Corvette volumes and they are happy as clams as they are wayyyy over that. Just not likely. My guess is GM planned on at least holding volume and from my experience actually believed that a better performing Camaro would steal sales away from both competitors resulting in HIGHER sales not even or less than Gen5.

In the end, GM would not likely pull out of this market. If nothing more than keeping LGR running for more than just the 50,000 ATS/CTS sales.

But you could also run a small Alpha based SUV down that line and if that made even MORE profit.....

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Number 3

It's possible, yes. But when you take your fixed costs and divide that by fewer units than you planned (20% less?) you aren't still making more profit than you planned.

But for all we know GM's plan was to sell Corvette volumes and they are happy as clams as they are wayyyy over that. Just not likely. My guess is GM planned on at least holding volume and from my experience actually believed that a better performing Camaro would steal sales away from both competitors resulting in HIGHER sales not even or less than Gen5.

In the end, GM would not likely pull out of this market. If nothing more than keeping LGR running for more than just the 50,000 ATS/CTS sales.

But you could also run a small Alpha based SUV down that line and if that made even MORE profit.....

I could see GM offering something on the 4 and 6 cylinders, but not the eight. The ZL1 will be released and those that can't afford one will buy the SS trim. I don't see them lowering the price anytime soon.

[90503]

I agree Chevy would love to sell more Camaros. With the lowest sales of the three, it paints a picture of the 6thGen as being the "least popular" of the three brands being discussed.

Everything so far, IMO, is simply speculation as to why that is the case. We just don't know for sure. My guess is we will not see a drastic reduction in price, or an attempt to make the car seem like it's less than what it is compared to the "competition".....

The bare-bones 5thGen V-8 Camaro, and it's price tag, was played out and dropping in sales way-before the 6thGen arrived. The clamor from most was for more creature comforts, tech-goodies, etc.,etc.....The 6thGen delivered in all areas without sacrificing, but with actually improving performance....

They will not go backwards in offering a feeble attempt to re-capture cheaper sales, as in no LS models, just to throw up sales numbers to compare to Mustang.

Performance has been the mantra since day one for the 6thGen....(with added up-grades in content)......

Do you really want that to change? Chevy has not even put out the 1LE options for the V-6 and SS models...The ZL-1 and Z/28 are still in the works and yet to hit the road.
The performance is still getting better....If it's not your thing, then maybe the Mustang is the car for you, or most.....

So be it, and I hope Chevy doesn't get cold feet in the performance department because someone else is selling more of a cheaper car....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

But as stated numerous times, maybe the Gen6 is generating more profit on less volume

It could be. I cant imagine they wanted to sell 40% less than the 5th gen did last june though. All new model, picked as the superior car in the segment by automotive journalists should be in its honeymoon period and have a sales spike. Instead, the car had its worst month in the last year and a half. That is what is most puzzling to me.

Originally Posted by Number 3

It's possible, yes. But when you take your fixed costs and divide that by fewer units than you planned (20% less?) you aren't still making more profit than you planned.

But for all we know GM's plan was to sell Corvette volumes and they are happy as clams as they are wayyyy over that. Just not likely. My guess is GM planned on at least holding volume and from my experience actually believed that a better performing Camaro would steal sales away from both competitors resulting in HIGHER sales not even or less than Gen5.

In the end, GM would not likely pull out of this market. If nothing more than keeping LGR running for more than just the 50,000 ATS/CTS sales.

But you could also run a small Alpha based SUV down that line and if that made even MORE profit.....

This ^ if the volume was close to what the 5th gen was doing I don't think it would be a big deal at all. But historically May and June are some of the strongest months for this car, and the all new 6th gen turned in the worst May and worst June since the car came back. And the fact that Challenger, without a drop top version has outsold it two months in a row is odd as well.

[Bassment]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

The goal of every car company is to build the platform that appeals to the most people. They want as many sales as possible, period. For stock prices to increase, revenues and profits must increase on an average year-over-year basis. The #1 mission of every business is to appease shareholders.

If the 6th Gen undersells the 5th Gen, that's a catastrophic error because it goes against the #1 mission of the company.

What? No it isn't. This is such a ridiculous comment. The only accurate part of this is that the #1 mission is to appease shareholders. That literally has nothing to do with appealing to the mass market. It's 100% about profit. That is it.

[Emoto]

So... maybe we'll see a re-vamped Camaro. A Gen 6.1 or a Gen 7 that will be "built to a lower price" in order to capture market share. That wouldn't be a bad thing. But, I think it will make us appreciate our fancy Gen 6 Camaros even more.

[Bassment]

What are you guys talking about when you keep saying the Camaro doesn't look like it costs as much as it does. Do you really think a BMW 328i looks more expensive? Or a c class or anything else in the price range? I personally think the camaro looks more expensive than it is. The only disadvantage is the badge. The looks are fine IMO. I have never seen a car even close in price to the new camaro that compares for interior. It absolutely blows away any car I've looked at for interior quality and looks. I cross shopped BMW and they feel like a 20k car compared to the camaro

Just awful, and this is from a car 15k more than the camaro (4 series)


Seriously BMW interior is civic level. An accord is a step up in interior over BMW. I always wanted a BMW, I love the look, but I couldn't handle that interior. Camaro looks way more expensive both inside and out, so I bought it. (and it smokes it on the track)

[Jeb114]

Camaro has lost the intermediate customer. In a world of SUV's and 4 Door pickup trucks.(which are flying off the show room floors) They choose to come to market with a car that has no room for anything. For a married couple with a family it is to small to be the only car, and too expensive to be the second car. And the proof to this is Dodge Charger since January 2016 has averaged 9500 units a month.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

Camaro has lost the intermediate customer. In a world of SUV's and 4 Door pickup trucks.(which are flying off the show room floors) They choose to come to market with a car that has no room for anything. For a married couple with a family it is to small to be the only car, and too expensive to be the second car. And the proof to this is Dodge Charger since January 2016 has averaged 9500 units a month.

People that are looking at camaros and mustangs don't really cross shop with 4 door barges. They sell more Tahoes than chargers, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Overall, auto sales may be down nationwide, but the Camaro is not in line with normal cyclical market contractions.

The issue here is that without a doubt if the price of an item goes up, fewer of that item will sell. That is just the way of things. So with the price of the Camaro increasing from $2k to $7k per car, depending on configuration, I 100% guarantee that GM/Chevy was expecting to sell fewer units. In fact, this is self evident. They raised the price, and so there is no way a reasonable business person would expect to sell as many as was sold for a less expensive version.

Yet people in this thread keep comparing it to sales of the previous, and much less expensive generation and assuming that these sales numbers are a failure. While that may be the case, the assumption that selling as many as the less expensive Mustang or less expensive previous generation is just not reasonable.

Look for all we know the overall net on the Camaro is MORE than it used to be on the 5th gen.

It's insane that people keep predicting the end of Camaro based on these sales with almost no indication from GM that they are unsatisfied with the number of units sold.

The year over year sales figures are not very informative. What was the ASP of a Camaro last year versus this year? When you combine the fact that the whole market is down overall, with the fact that the GM entry into the segment is more expensive, then I suspect sales are in line with expectations.

Of course this is as much conjecture as anyone else best guess.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

But as stated numerous times, maybe the Gen6 is generating more profit on less volume

According to Morningstar.com, GM's current trailing twelve month operating margin is 4.0%, roughly half that of the overall industry. That is very low. Compare that to a company like Johnson & Johnson who has margins of 26%.

http://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/gm/quote.html

It is very...optimistic...to feel that GM, a company notorious for poor margins that depend on volume to drive profits, can suddenly triple their margins to make up for gigantic sales losses. No, I'd say GM is almost assuredly getting killed, here, especially since the first year sales are so crucial because capital expenses are front-loaded. What I mean by that is it is extremely capital intensive to redesign a completely new generation of car - new chassis, new interior, new electronics, new routing diagrams, new motor and transmission design, new suspension, produced in a totally different factory in a totally different country - GM has sunk an astounding amount of capital into the 6th Gen. It is a total redesign from the ground up, so their expectations would have to have been a dramatic boost in sales to pay for all that. They're surely hurting.

To try and make that conclusion is more naive than optimistic.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

According to Morningstar.com, GM's current trailing twelve month operating martin is 4.0%, roughly half that of the overall industry. That is very low. Compare that to a company like Johnson & Johnson who has margins of 26%.

http://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/gm/quote.html

It is very...optimistic...to feel that GM, a company notorious for poor margins that depend on volume to drive profits, can suddenly triple their margins to make up with gigantic sales losses. No, I'd say GM is almost assuredly getting killed, here, especially since the first year sales are so crucial because capital expenses are front-loaded. What I mean by that it is extremely capital intensive to redesign a completely new generation of car - new chassis, new interior, new electronics, new routing diagrams, new motor and transmission design, new suspension, produced in a totally different factory in a totally different country - GM has sunk an astounding amount of capital into the 6th Gen. It is a total redesign from the ground up, so their expectations would have to have been a dramatic boost in sales to pay for all that. They're surely hurting.

To try and make that conclusion is more naive than optimistic.

Evidently, they aren't. There are things they could do such as reduce the price by incentives, but they haven't. I trust in them and their products, which is why I own one.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

According to Morningstar.com, GM's current trailing twelve month operating margin is 4.0%, roughly half that of the overall industry. That is very low. Compare that to a company like Johnson & Johnson who has margins of 26%.
....

Why, that's like comparing Camaros to Q-Tips!