[90503]

Originally Posted by Hylton

I hear that comment all the time but whom at Ford has stated this? Other than the Ford GT of a few years ago, Ford does not play in that market segment.

I hear ya,...but in my mind I always thought of the "Shelby Mustangs" as being more of a competitor with the Vette? (Completely un-official and un-substantiated point of view on my part...lol...just sayin")

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by 90503

I hear ya,...but in my mind I always thought of the "Shelby Mustangs" as being more of a competitor with the Vette? (Completely un-official and un-substantiated point of view on my part...lol...just sayin")

Well I am in the market for a Vette and I just can't imagine cross-shopping a Mustang. Imagine going out to look at Vettes and coming home with a Mustang? How disappointing.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Well I am in the market for a Vette and I just can't imagine cross-shopping a Mustang. Imagine going out to look at Vettes and coming home with a Mustang? How disappointing.

I agree...Personally, I think Ford blew it's chance to compete with the Vette, going all the way back to the 50's...lol...The T-Bird sort of was the candidate to answer the Vette, but Ford couldn't figure out what the T-Bird was supposed to be, and blew the shot at making it their sports car...

I think the Camaro/Mustang thing loses some steam, given that Ford butchered the T-Bird line and never tried to compete with the Vette, and was left with "just" the Mustang and the "Shelby" upgrades.

[E.T.]

I love my Camaro, but I somewhat agree with the OP. Ford seems to be more performance oriented, and they seem to understand what enthusiasts want. They offer add-on packages, gears, they make their cars lighter, etc.

What does GM do? They make our auto run in 4-banger mode. Just one example where the they chose economy over pure performance. It seems when comparing the Camaro to the Mustang, the Ford always edges it out in performance.

That said, the Camaro is much better looking, and it's an awesome car. I just think it's pretty conservative in its stock form.

Reliability wise, who knows. I'm sure there are plenty of Fords in the shop, but I just took my SS in for a rear main seal replacement because it was leaking oil at 1700 miles (probably sooner)

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by meissen

The Vette is always going to be Camaro's handicap. That's the cold fact. Ford's Mustang doesn't have the handicap - if they get a monster HP package they aren't competing with any halo cars. GM on the other hand can't allow the Camaro's HP to get too close to Corvette range or else all the 'Vette snobs will have their panties in a bunch. That's why you'll see Camaro's HP playing second fiddle. There's a reason Camaros has almost always had the same engine as the 'Vette, but yet has always been detuned so the HP wasn't identical to the Vette.

Excellent observation! I'm surprised the ZL1 was allowed to do the Nurburgring as fast as it did since it humbled many Z06s. The 4th gen Camaro was definitely victim to this malady and wasn't allowed to get close to 350 HP until Corvette got the Z06 at 385 HP. I'm very happy with the performance of my Camaro and if I choose to run faster in a straight line or road course, all it takes is money! I've had 5 Mustangs and 3 Camaros and I loved each...enjoy the power guys, the day is coming!!!

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by E.T.

I love my Camaro, but I somewhat agree with the OP. Ford seems to be more performance oriented, and they seem to understand what enthusiasts want. They offer add-on packages, gears, they make their cars lighter, etc.

What does GM do? They make our auto run in 4-banger mode. Just one example where the they chose economy over pure performance. It seems when comparing the Camaro to the Mustang, the Ford always edges it out in performance.

That said, the Camaro is much better looking, and it's an awesome car. I just think it's pretty conservative in its stock form.

Reliability wise, who knows. I'm sure there are plenty of Fords in the shop, but I just took my SS in for a rear main seal replacement because it was leaking oil at 1700 miles (probably sooner)

this is why they are selling less mustangs though. Majority of the the consumers care about the overall car instead of straight numbers and engine options. You can put a 1,000,000 hp in a car but it doesn't look fresh on a 10 year old design it will flop

[Bob Cosby]

Ford has no competitor for the Vette. The Mustang's direct competitor is the Camaro - always has been, and to some extent, the Challenger. The Corvette is essentially in a league of its own as far as American cars are concerned (at least until you get into Viper price range).

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

Excellent observation! I'm surprised the ZL1 was allowed to do the Nurburgring as fast as it did since it humbled many Z06s. The 4th gen Camaro was definitely victim to this malady and wasn't allowed to get close to 350 HP until Corvette got the Z06 at 385 HP. I'm very happy with the performance of my Camaro and if I choose to run faster in a straight line or road course, all it takes is money! I've had 5 Mustangs and 3 Camaros and I loved each...enjoy the power guys, the day is coming!!!

What are you talking about? F-bodies had the same 345hp ls1s as the vettes since 1998, way before the z06 came out

[E.T.]

Originally Posted by AAG

This made me .

What's even more sad is the ZL1 gets hit wth a gas guzzler tax and the GT500 with more power doesn't and is rated 24 mpg hwy vs 18/19 of the ZL1. to Ford

I'm sure if I had a 'stang, I'd find some things to complain about too, but I gotta give those Ford engineers props. The GT500 is 600-some HP and it's getting 24 mpgs. That's pretty darn amazing.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by stieger

For a GM man that was quite the blue oval fanboy rant.

Also, let's not forget something. The mustang is both Ford's Camaro and their corvette.

And the Mustang came first and has remained in production, uninterrupted. As a result GM will usually be playing catch up. Camaros are good in their own right and have been some of the best looking cars ever built. That's plenty to enjoy.

[samhardy2008]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Ford has no competitor for the Vette. The Mustang's direct competitor is the Camaro - always has been, and to some extent, the Challenger. The Corvette is essentially in a league of its own as far as American cars are concerned (at least until you get into Viper price range).

what about the ford GT?

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by samhardy2008

what about the ford GT?

A very limited production car built only in 2005 and 2006 (4038 total). It's American competitor was certainly the 2006+ Corvette Z06. But that was what...6 years ago?

[xx_ED_xx]

They dont make the GT anymore, hence the reason it wasnt mentioned.

Honestly i dont understand why GM has more then one sports car, and now there is talk about a full size v8 sedan..

I personally dont buy a car for stock numbers... I prefer GM for my performance goals. IF i wasnt a hot rodder I would probably drive a toyota or honda. Reliable good vehicles unlike most of the GM junk lately but I am sure someone will disagree.

[SleepWarz]

Originally Posted by 90503

I agree...Personally, I think Ford blew it's chance to compete with the Vette, going all the way back to the 50's...lol...The T-Bird sort of was the candidate to answer the Vette, but Ford couldn't figure out what the T-Bird was supposed to be, and blew the shot at making it their sports car...

I think the Camaro/Mustang thing loses some steam, given that Ford butchered the T-Bird line and never tried to compete with the Vette, and was left with "just" the Mustang and the "Shelby" upgrades.

Yep the tbird went in an entirely different direction for sure.