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Old 11-20-2014, 06:40 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying, it's just that yes, there are a couple assumptions in there that change the figures a lot. The CTS VSport has 25.7" tires which drop the OD by 3" compared to the Camaro, or just over 10%. Stick those on the Camaro and it'd be like having a ~3.60 rear end ratio. CTS VSport 24mpg, Camaro LFX 27mpg, CTS LFX 29mpg. The CTS also has a much better coefficient of drag plus the 8 speed which logically helps the mileage, like with the LFX numbers. (Point being: at 2000rpm it's still running the same speed as an LFX equipped car, instead of turning lower rpm. It should get at least similar gas mileage, not this much worse. Such as how the new Mercedes TTV6 E400 gets identical gas mileage to the E350, 30mpg.)

On the other hand, the C7 is better than the C6 and the LT1 is better than the LS3. I think that is an objective statement - essentially identical, but the LT1 has DI, VVT, DoD and an extra gear(s depending). Denying the LT1's efficiency would be ridiculous, also. I simply have a hard time believing the LF3 is any manner of optimized since #1 it doesn't exactly fill any gaps and #2 probably won't be around much longer (like the good ole' LS6)... and #3 GM engineers can't seem to gear anything short of the Corvette for crap.
No one should be comparing FE of a C7 and pretty much anything else. The mass and CD of the Corvette are so far better than anything you are comparing to.

To determine the FE benefit of the 3.6 TT, better off comparing to a car with the LS3 that is about the same weight, that would be the SS Sedan.

The 8 speed in the CTS V-sport would be about 1 mpg improvement and if memory serves, the SS is 21 mpg highway and the CTS V-sport is 23. So put the 8 speed in my SS (which turns about 2,000 rpm at 70 mph) and I would expect to get the 1 mpg improvement or at best match the CTS V-sport.

Technically, the TT should do better than that as when not under boost it is basically a much smaller displacement engine.

LT1 with cylinder deactivation should help, but basically it will likely only offset the HP increase.

But we are discussing unicorns as our car has not been revealed or with what powertrain.
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #44
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I just hope the Camaro comes stock with 19's and not 20's. I think that'll make a huge difference in performance, and drastically drop prices of aftermarket wheel and tires packages. Taking 40 lbs of rotational mass of the stock cast wheels will be easy to achieve in an affordable manner if 19's are stock. The 20's that come on the Gen 5 are killers - you have to compromise between performance and looks.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:20 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
I just hope the Camaro comes stock with 19's and not 20's. I think that'll make a huge difference in performance, and drastically drop prices of aftermarket wheel and tires packages. Taking 40 lbs of rotational mass of the stock cast wheels will be easy to achieve in an affordable manner if 19's are stock. The 20's that come on the Gen 5 are killers - you have to compromise between performance and looks.
Agreed, my TBSS has 20" rims and only one size higher aspect ratio than a Camaro SS (275/45/20). That is ridiculous and unnecessarily large on the Camaro. Hopefully the proportions of the 6th gen allows 19's while keeping the look. Unfortunately, I think the oversized rims are such a strong part of the look that they may stick to them again.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:26 PM   #46
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From what I understand the larger wheels were a necessity for aesthetics on the 5th gen.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:40 PM   #47
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It's been my experience that finding tires to fit a 20" wheel are a lot easier to find than the for 19" wheels on the Gen 5.

Typically 18's, 20's, and 22's are easier to find tires for than 19's or 21's for the Gen 5. I wouldn't be surprised if the Gen 6 follows suit.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:45 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
I just hope the Camaro comes stock with 19's and not 20's. I think that'll make a huge difference in performance, and drastically drop prices of aftermarket wheel and tires packages. Taking 40 lbs of rotational mass of the stock cast wheels will be easy to achieve in an affordable manner if 19's are stock. The 20's that come on the Gen 5 are killers - you have to compromise between performance and looks.
Sure 19" wheels can be lighter than 20" wheels (depending on certain factors, not indefinitely) but do you have any real evidence of any performance advantages of 19" wheels compared to 20" wheels on a 5th gen camaro? Is that a fact or just rational thinking?
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:39 PM   #49
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Sure 19" wheels can be lighter than 20" wheels (depending on certain factors, not indefinitely) but do you have any real evidence of any performance advantages of 19" wheels compared to 20" wheels on a 5th gen camaro? Is that a fact or just rational thinking?
Its physics. For wheels that are otherwise identical, a smaller diameter wheel will weigh less (which improves handling) & has less rotating inertia (which is beneficial for acceleration & braking).

How much does it help? That depends how much smaller & lighter you go, as well as whether or not the same tire diameter is kept. But smaller wheels helping performance? Thats pretty much a given.
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:19 PM   #50
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Pfft. Dont worry bro our 2016 camaro is faster than that.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:05 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant_ss View Post
Sure 19" wheels can be lighter than 20" wheels (depending on certain factors, not indefinitely) but do you have any real evidence of any performance advantages of 19" wheels compared to 20" wheels on a 5th gen camaro? Is that a fact or just rational thinking?
ABSOLUTELY! Tire height is CRUCIAL to performance. One of the worst things about today's Camaro is how tall the wheels and tires are. Reducing the wheels/tires to 18", even if the wheels and tires were exactly the same weight, would provide better performance because the mass would be more concentrated and not spread out over such a large area.

Going to lighter wheels and tires helps on a twisy track. Going to SMALLER wheels and tires helps on the 1/4 mile big time. Swapping the stock cast 20's to forged 18" wheels can cut up to half a second off your 1/4 mile ET's, all while providing better cornering and increased fuel economy.

Cutting them down to 19's not only will be a big performance boost, but it opens up many more wheel and tire options, and are substantially cheaper. Rotary forged wheels are often $50-100 cheaper A PIECE in 19's than 20's! Then factor in a drop of around $50-100 PER TIRE. It's big weight and big money.

I bought ZL1 rims for my car to save weight, but I really wish I could've gone to 18" or 19" wheels/tires. That would've been a huge performance boost, but I didn't want to sacrifice the looks. So I compromised - still 30 lbs lighter collectively, but it could've been so, so much more.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:46 PM   #52
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You would be pushing hand grenade territory out of 2 liters.

Due to strict regulations, Europe has become the master of the teeny tiny performance engine, and i'm convinced that GM will source their 4-pot from Opel/Vauxhall in Europe.

Peugeot have a mass produced 1.6L that pushes nearly 280hp. Mercedes have a 2.0L that pushes nearly 370hp. Kia's Slovakian built 1.6L Turbo can be pushed to nearly 240 with nothing but a remap and a cone filter.

If GM can't squeeze 320 from a 4-cylinder then their engineering team needs a slap in the face. They already have a 300hp inline 4, so an extra 20hp isn't asking for much.
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:57 PM   #53
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I THINK THE V6 HAS A STONG ENGINE BUT THEY MUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE WEIGHT
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:58 AM   #54
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Due to strict regulations, Europe has become the master of the teeny tiny performance engine, and i'm convinced that GM will source their 4-pot from Opel/Vauxhall in Europe.

Peugeot have a mass produced 1.6L that pushes nearly 280hp. Mercedes have a 2.0L that pushes nearly 370hp. Kia's Slovakian built 1.6L Turbo can be pushed to nearly 240 with nothing but a remap and a cone filter.

If GM can't squeeze 320 from a 4-cylinder then their engineering team needs a slap in the face. They already have a 300hp inline 4, so an extra 20hp isn't asking for much.
I'm pretty sure the engine you are referring to are big dollar engines. GM can certainly do that but the cost would get more and more prohibitive..

Now bump it to 2.3 or 2.5 and you can get 300 to 320. But for 100,000 mile durability a 300 plus 2.0 liter would need some pretty high priced internals. And I wouldn't want the money into the 4 cylinder.
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