12-01-2017, 08:52 PM | #1 | |
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 218
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Help From Experienced Auto-X Drivers
My first run of the day. I spin at 53 seconds. I used to think that all my spins were due to too much throttle, but as you can see I have no brake or throttle inputs when I spin.
My question is; what did I do wrong, and how do I fix it? |
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12-01-2017, 08:59 PM | #2 |
Big Samoan ina little car
Drives: 2016 camaro Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tofiga Island
Posts: 1,872
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hows your alignment and what tires are ya running (also psi)? looking at the surface, might just be me, but it does look a bit unprepped of sorts, like there could be a lot of dirt/debris there considering all the cross lines and parking spaces. theres a few places I run local and they have a lot of worn pavement, bumps and cracks, and you can get unsettled in a turn easy.
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12-01-2017, 09:12 PM | #3 |
Drives: 2022 SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston
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Hey Tim202,
Nice run! It is tough to diagnose via video, but if it is driver and not car there are a few clues. - You DNF at the :36 second mark (go left of the pointer cone instead of right). - Your steering and throttle inputs are abrupt. - Right before the spin the steering angle goes up to 113 degrees pretty rapidly and then reduces. My guess is the rapid spike in steering input unsettled the car enough to spin on that section of pavement. So the steering input may be the proximal cause of the spin, but I think the real cause is that the course is surprising you because you are looking just in front the car as opposed to lifting your eyes up and looking ahead. The fix? I'd try three things. Look father ahead, through the next maneuver and into the one beyond that at least. This will naturally help you do the following: Slow down your hands and feet. be gentler and early on your control inputs. Qualcomm. - Lots of fast folks run there! See if you can get someone to ride with you and give you some coaching. There are lots of mechanical things that could cause this as well, a bad alignment, out of wack tire pressures, corded tires.... But I can't see any of that in the video.The surface could be crappy at that spot as well. A seasoned instructor can help you sort those things. Anyway, good job. Asking for help means you will get faster! Let us know how you do! |
12-01-2017, 10:39 PM | #4 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 267
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I dont think it was the steering input that unsettled the car, you had about 65% throttle with a 71 degree steering angle and then you just abruptly lifted 100% off the throttle. You should never do that while your wheel is turned. If you watch the friction bubble at that point, it is kind of settled slightly to the rear left and then it jumps hard right to over a G right after you lift.
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12-01-2017, 10:44 PM | #5 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 267
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This could be in combination with the course conditions, but you either needed to a little more gradually lift 100% before you started turning left or you needed to not lift all the way and depending on how fast you were going and how fast you could have taken that turn the car would have probably stayed stable.
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12-03-2017, 12:15 AM | #6 |
Drives: 2016 1SS - M6 Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 116
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I agree with the above ....... you unsettled the car in a transition state.
Solution (without spending extra money): 1) Try not to make *drastic* (I using that word loosely) inputs or changes when the car is under G (side) load...... a good example you've probably heard is "brake in a straight line before the turn, as braking thru the turn can unsettle the car." - throttle input has the same affect. 2) Find a fellow competitor that does well and see if you can ride along on his/her run. Personally, I think that this will pay HUGE dividends on giving you an idea of what and where to do things on the course (autocrossing a car is like a dance - you need to work with you partner fluently and not try and force them around) 3) As stated earlier, look further ahead - this will help you to set up the car for section ahead to help make the whole course more fluent. 4) Usually (if its an SCCA event) there will be a novice walk thru. Get with the person leading the walk thru and see if they, or another "instructor", would ride along in one of your runs. But on a positive note, I like to see drivers that push too hard (in any sense), as they are learning the limits of the car and, in my humble opinion, I have found that it is much easier to "rein" someone in that is too aggressive than it is to teach aggression. Good luck and most importantly have fun ! |
12-03-2017, 07:59 AM | #7 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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Maybe a little too much focus on the throttle, generally. Pretty sure I'm seeing an off-course/DNF at 0:36 or so.
Norm
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12-03-2017, 12:08 PM | #8 |
Drives: 22 1SS 1LE Summit White Join Date: Sep 2016
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Hmm. I think the largest think I noticed is just how abrupt you were will all imputs. You should almost always have some sort of throttle input unless braking. When you lift off when turning you are putting all that momentum on the front and that will cause the rear to slide.
Feel free to check out my videos from this year. I’m not the best teacher but I’ll says this when you spin you learn. People that just go out and toodle around aren’t learning the limits of their cars. Keep you head up and make sure to keep it fun!
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12-03-2017, 08:43 PM | #9 |
Drives: Cayman S or Borrowed 17 1SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2017
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Like others have said abrupt on inputs, steering and throttle. Remember it's not just easing into the throttle, you have to ease off it smoothly or the weight will shift abruptly and upset the car.
That said, that slide looks like it could have been saved. When the car started to rotate you instinctively moved to the brake which takes even more weight off the rear tires and makes you spin quicker. There was also little to no counter-steer until after it was too late. It sounds counter-intuitive, but in those situations, applying some throttle and counter steer will actually help save you from spinning. With more experience and a lot of practice, you will learn to use this behavior to your advantage. Also, IMHO, turn off PTM and run with everything off. It's a great tool for extracting that last bit of performance out of the car, but when you're learning car control, it just acts as a crutch and you might learn some bad habbits that PTM will allow you to get away with.
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Last edited by sholzer; 12-04-2017 at 07:19 AM. |
12-04-2017, 08:59 AM | #10 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS Join Date: Jan 2016
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Quote:
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12-04-2017, 10:19 AM | #11 |
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Diego, CA
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Wow, a lot of different ideas about what happened, and I thank everyone for their inputs. I would have to agree with what everyone has said. I think I have picked up bad driving habits (for this car) from a few main sources:
1. Computer racing (NASCAR, rFactor 1 & 2, and iRacing). Was doing computer racing long before autocross and since you cannot look ahead in the sim (head don't turn), I don't do it much now. Not looking ahead is one of if not the biggest issue I have and a hard habit to break. 2. Abrupt steering inputs. This one I blame on the 10 years with my Subaru STI. Ask anyone who autocrosses with an STI, you have to manhandle those things to get them to do anything. Jerking the wheel was the way to get-r-done. Obviously RWD cars require quite a bit more finesse. 3. Abrupt throttle input/offput. Same as #2, blame on the turbo lagging STI. I had major problem with drop-throttle-oversteer on it (which resulted in a number of spins) and, after a couple years, stopped spinning the STI. I guess this car has a whole different drop-throttle point. With the STI throttle it was either all on or all off. I see that cannot be done with this car. Going to take a whole lot of re-learning the right foot. So it looks like once, if ever, I learn smooth throttle AND smooth wheel inputs I should do better. Again, thanks everyone for your inputs, I actually learned some stuff and I truly appreciate it. Now just have to apply. |
12-06-2017, 05:19 PM | #12 |
Drives: 2018 1SS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Palm Coast, Fla
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..Also Tim if you spin in an autocross course, try to remain in the course (turn towards the "track", not away from it). If you do, you can continue the run and it should not count as a DNF (depending on the corner worker call)...
...ask me how I know! |
12-06-2017, 06:09 PM | #13 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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If you spin, the time it will take you to recover and get pointed in the right direction might as well be a DNF. The only exception would be if you don't (yet) have any runs that are not DNFs and you need a timed run regardless of what that time might end up being.
Possibly the worst action to take following a spin might be to short-cut the course straight to the finish lights. Norm
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12-12-2017, 03:30 PM | #14 |
Drives: 2016 1SS Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maryland
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I have never been to Qualcomm, but it looks like a downhill off-camber turn where you spun?
Based on the video, I recommend making an effort to backside every cone, and move your brake/off throttle input a little earlier and roll on a little sooner. If it's a off camber turn, set up the turn a little earlier should help. I also saw you missing a slalom cone earlier in the run. Get your eyes up higher. JHMO. Last edited by dannykao; 12-12-2017 at 03:41 PM. |
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