[sds]

Two questions:

1) What are the differences between the 22+ LT1 engines and earlier models?

2) I've seen some anecdotes that the newer motors (possibly 22+?) make a bit more power. (E.g. commentary from some tuning shops on YouTube). Any evidence on this?

[FarmerFran]

I highly doubt they make more power. Unless they finagled the tune, but I doubt it

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by sds

Two questions:

1) What are the differences between the 22+ LT1 engines and earlier models?

2) I've seen some anecdotes that the newer motors (possibly 22+?) make a bit more power. (E.g. commentary from some tuning shops on YouTube). Any evidence on this?

What exactly was changed?

Power is largely a function of how much fuel and air you can cram in there. If you aren't increasing this, or increasing RPM, there's no more power being made. Does it now rev to 7K or something? No. Is it taking in more air so it can add more fuel? No.

[JT6Speed]

Yeah the only "difference" I can think of is hand built at PBC vs not, but it's still the same motor with the same exact intake, heads, throttle body, and etc.

I do wonder though if you dyno a non-NPP vs an NPP if that makes a slight difference like on the C7.

[sds]

It’s my understanding that the 22+ uses a different cam phaser and calibration as per this document.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...54Supplier.pdf

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by sds

It’s my understanding that the 22+ uses a different cam phaser and calibration as per this document.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...54Supplier.pdf

This document is for the LT1 crate engine. Even if they used the same new cam phaser for stock LT1 Camaro engine builds from 2022, the probabilities of why GM used a new part is 99% that it's merely a cheaper component to save some cost and only 1% that someone in GM engineering still had the irresistible spark and the irrepressible grit to push a better (more powerful) design through.

Okay, why am I saying this?

- one, there has been no official Camaro development team since 2019, just a few caretakers to oversee manufacturing and the parts bin additions that must have already been in the pipeline from or before 2019;

- two, there have been zero reports of any widespread cam phaser issues, unlike, say, the LT4 oil pump or the A8 transmission shudder issue, so they had no obvious business imperative to seek alternatives;

- three, if they improve anything powerwise, they have to recertify and re-emission the car, which costs $$$$, and considering how little they invested into even the 2024 farewell edition (existing parts, a new paint color, vinyl and a cheap ass new badge), this is very unlikely.

All conjecture of course, and I'd be the happiest to learn that this was the 1% case, not the 99%, if someone has actual and verified information.

[HDRDTD]

From the document mentioned....

MODEL YEAR 2022 AND NEWER ENGINES REQUIRE THE USE OF THE CORRECT CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE ENGINE CONTROLLER KITS WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO
WORK WITH MODEL YEAR 2022 ENGINES AND NEWER. MODEL YEAR 2022 LT1 ENGINES USE A NEWER STYLE CAM PHASER AND REQUIRE A UNIQUE
CALIBRATION. PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE DEALER TO ENSURE THE CORRECT CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE ENGINE CONTROLLER KIT IS
USED FOR THIS ENGINE.

[sds]

I do believe they use a different phaser for the ‘22+ Camaro LT1 motors as well as per GPI’s website (see dropdown for “cam bolt”).

https://gwatneyperformance.com/produ...-kit/#cam-bolt

Agree that this doesn’t mean anything, it’s just interesting.

[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

From the document mentioned....

MODEL YEAR 2022 AND NEWER ENGINES REQUIRE THE USE OF THE CORRECT CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE ENGINE CONTROLLER KITS WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO
WORK WITH MODEL YEAR 2022 ENGINES AND NEWER. MODEL YEAR 2022 LT1 ENGINES USE A NEWER STYLE CAM PHASER AND REQUIRE A UNIQUE
CALIBRATION. PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE DEALER TO ENSURE THE CORRECT CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE ENGINE CONTROLLER KIT IS
USED FOR THIS ENGINE.

Originally Posted by sds

I do believe they use a different phaser for the ‘22+ Camaro LT1 motors as well as per GPI’s website (see dropdown for “cam bolt”).

https://gwatneyperformance.com/produ...-kit/#cam-bolt

Agree that this doesn’t mean anything, it’s just interesting.

I'm not an engine builder and don't really know how a cam phaser works, but might this be something to help emissions or mileage? Just thinking GM is all WOKE and stuff, can't imagine them doing something to entice the Muscle Car Enthusiasts... If it was making more power, you can bet GM would be singing from the rooftops...

I LOVE my 2020 Camaro 2SS, but I've given up on GM... My first 4 cars were GM and now my favorite "toy" car is GM, but I can pretty much guarantee I'll never own another (I'm not a "Vette" guy...) The company isn't listening to the customers and is far too worried about how they stand politically...

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

Yeah the only "difference" I can think of is hand built at PBC vs not, but it's still the same motor with the same exact intake, heads, throttle body, and etc.

I do wonder though if you dyno a non-NPP vs an NPP if that makes a slight difference like on the C7.

The thing about exhaust sizes is the exhaust outlets on most cars these days are vastly larger than is necessary for the amount of HP. Like one 2" pipe is usually perfectly fine for 300hp, so you aren't running into any big restrictions here...usually. So yeah, I have a "quad" exhaust, but it's not necessary and opening it up at one spot isn't going to do anything. Headers and an exhaust that flows all the way from the heads can be tuned for more HP, it's not a huge increase, but it's starting to make some significant changes that can provide some more HP. People always tend to reference turbo cars where if you significantly open up the exhaust and use it to turn the compressor faster, you can get some serious gains. These have to be balanced out with the turbo size, as a small turbo will "give out" faster, but hp and tq increases can be 20% easy, vs. making the same % increase on a NA engine will take far more work and components. So people end to think that with similar exhaust mods and tune a NA engine can produce the same % different...but not even close.

[JT6Speed]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The thing about exhaust sizes is the exhaust outlets on most cars these days are vastly larger than is necessary for the amount of HP. Like one 2" pipe is usually perfectly fine for 300hp, so you aren't running into any big restrictions here...usually. So yeah, I have a "quad" exhaust, but it's not necessary and opening it up at one spot isn't going to do anything. Headers and an exhaust that flows all the way from the heads can be tuned for more HP, it's not a huge increase, but it's starting to make some significant changes that can provide some more HP. People always tend to reference turbo cars where if you significantly open up the exhaust and use it to turn the compressor faster, you can get some serious gains. These have to be balanced out with the turbo size, as a small turbo will "give out" faster, but hp and tq increases can be 20% easy, vs. making the same % increase on a NA engine will take far more work and components. So people end to think that with similar exhaust mods and tune a NA engine can produce the same % different...but not even close.

Yeah I agree. I'm just more so curious if you had the exact spec car down to the wheels, but just one with NPP and one without, if there would be any difference.

Regardless, this exhaust is way better than my 2014 Mustang stock. That had resonators, and the mufflers were big heavy things that were whisper quiet. Not to mention we get a factory tri-y setup.

[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

Yeah I agree. I'm just more so curious if you had the exact spec car down to the wheels, but just one with NPP and one without, if there would be any difference.

Regardless, this exhaust is way better than my 2014 Mustang stock. That had resonators, and the mufflers were big heavy things that were whisper quiet. Not to mention we get a factory tri-y setup.

On the Corvette I believe they said 5 HP and 5 LB Torque... Either way, being open has to provide a little bit (maybe not enough to make a difference, but Chevy does call it the "Performance Exhaust"...