[00 Trans Ram]

Originally Posted by meyouand987.2

Carbotech xp10/xp8 and castrol SRF and be done with it. Once you get better (ie more seat time again), you might need ducts.

This. All day. This.

And, those XP10/8 pads can be used on the street. I might have said that in this thread (got a few going that are similar). But, I used them for a couple years on my G8 on the street. When cold (as in, right at startup, until you go through 1-2 brake cycles; i.e. 1-2 blocks of driving), they are comparable to stock pads. Maybe a little worse.

But, from then on, until you shut the car off, they are really good. And, if you really get on them (spirited highway, track, etc.), they are the best. Not, "they are the best" like "they are good". I mean, "they are the best" as in "no other pad will beat these, period."

[00 Trans Ram]

Originally Posted by JAM32

I'm hard on these pads; I tend to be the kind of idiot who brakes waaay late. Have been even since video games. Ya know where I'm still on the pedal as I'm trying to turn in for the apex.

I hesitate to even write this. But, here goes. This is one of those advanced techniques that I share with some of the faster and/or more experienced students and fellow racers.

We are all taught, when learning to race (autox, track day, road race), that we should do all of our braking in a straight line. And, for most people, this is the 100% correct advice. It's the most consistent, and is a really fast way to drive. However, if you want to get an extra 2mph on the long straight, there is a slightly faster way.

You do exactly what you say. You stay on the brakes a little as you enter the corner. This technique does 2 things, which result in a 3rd thing.

1) It keeps transferred weight on the front tires, which are turning. This means that you will be able to turn in a little harder. Technically, because there is more weight on the front tires, you can carry a tad more speed through the turn. The front tires will grip more, because of the weight. They are less likely to "push" wide.

2) It makes the rear end lighter. This means that the rear of the car will become loose. It will begin to rotate towards the outside of the turn. This may sound bad, but if you look at the car's position when the rear end is sliding towards the outside, it means that the car is turned INTO the turn slightly more.

3) The result of these 2 things is that your car has "made the turn" before you even hit the apex. It's rotated a little faster than when you drive a normal line. Because your car is rotated more than normal, it means that you've completed ~60% of the turn BEFORE you hit the apex, instead of 50% like normal. Because you've already done most of your turning when you are at the apex, it means that you can start applying throttle at, or slightly before, you get to the apex.

Also, you will NEED to apply the throttle before you get to the apex. Remember, your rear is sliding a little. When you hit the gas, it will transfer some weight to the rear, giving it more traction. This will stop it from sliding. Depending upon your car (tire temp, track conditions, car setup, etc.), your front tires may push a little, now that they have less weight on them. Or, you may be able to drive the car out of the turn. Either way, you've got a little wiggle room on exit (because you've already done most of your turning).

Now, I'm not talking about "drifting". Not even close. The kind of "sliding" I'm talking about is 10% or so. Essentially, it's not enough sliding for an outside observer to even see. But, you will feel it (once you have "become one" with your car).

Also, when you talk with a tire manufacturer about ultimate grip on a slick race tire, they'll tell you that max grip is generated when you are at 110% of the adhesion limit. The reason for this is that, when you are at 100%, the rubber on the tire is stretching to its limit, but not over. When you exceed 100%, little bits of rubber are torn away. It takes energy to tear the rubber. Meaning, the tire absorbs more of the energy your car is putting into it. Or, put another way, you can put more kinetic energy (turn harder) into the tire.

But, most rubber is not torn away, and is still at that 100% adhesion limit. That 110% number is the sweet point at which you get max traction from both tearing and not tearing. If you begin to go over 110%, you're just tearing a lot of rubber off, and not getting much of the regular traction.

It's an extremely fine line. And, if you go over it, you spin off track. It's a high-risk/very-little-reward technique. But, when you and your competitors have gotten to the point where you have mastered all of the low-risk/high-reward things (race tires, lightweight, good brakes, etc.) and the high-risk/high-reward things (more power, threshold braking, etc.), then high-risk/low-reward things are the only ones left to give you that edge over the other guys.