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Old 02-13-2013, 11:45 AM   #211
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Just as you call bans on certain personal freedoms "silly bans", those people who are not car enthusiasts would call a ban on high performance engines the same thing. Captain's sig says it well (look into the actual quote he got his from). When they banned smoking in public places in the name of public safety, there wasn't an uproar because smokers are less than 10% of the population. So the bans stuck. What if they decided to ban "gas guzzlers" in the name of public safety? What percentage of the population would you consider to be car enthusiasts? It sure isn't anywhere near 10%....

I'm not saying they are planning on doing any bans, RIGHT NOW. But the fact is they can at any time they choose to. The Clean Air Act gives them the right to, and courts have upheld that law. And the types of people running the EPA right now are the ones with a history of making "silly bans" in the name of public safety.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:08 PM   #212
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I call BS on this one. How much experience do you have with boosted 6 and 4 cylinders? Again, you miss the power:weight ratio.

I read your posts, and you do make people think, but on this, I call BS.
You can call it anything you want, you're entitled to your own opinion... just not entitled to your own FACTS.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:12 PM   #213
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It would be incredibly stupid for GM and Ford to ignore the fastest growing economies and populations on the planet, especially considering they are publicly traded companies with a responsibility to shareholders to pursue expansion opportunities.
Ayone with stock in a company that for any reason can have your stock sold off illegally by public servants to reimburse the unsecured creditors that make up their constituents is out of their mind. I'm amazed anyone owns any auto company stock anymore, but I guess I overestimated the intelligence of the average person.

So much dumbing down going on these days, I bet only 10% of the people in this forum even know what it is I am talking about.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:26 PM   #214
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It's only fair to point out that there are a lot of people in China, and GM saw this as an opportunity to get into a market before a culture of buying cars became mainstream. As a result, GM has expanded into an untapped business market. It has nothing to do with Camaros. It has to do with expanding the sales end of a big business.
Did they still teach world history when you went to school, or did they already switch over to devote that time to hyping junk science about the atmosphere?

If you know anything about history and current events you will know that GM and Ford are playing with fire. Nothing exists to prevent the Chinese from one day deciding that they have amassed suffucient car manufucturing technology from the gullible and greedy Americans and simply tell them to leave the country or else. Then the state will take over and LOL at anyone who poured a lot of money in stock thinking there was great "growth opportunity".

Other than that, we have China harassing the shipping of our Ally Japan, so if something breaks out then, we might have to recall everyone and everything from China. China is allied with North Korea as well, and despite 4 years of january addresses that claimed we were stopping their Nuclear aspirations... well... test #3 of a more powerful miniaturized nuke (missile warhead type) went off the other day. What happens there is anyone's guess.

I would not be so quick to boast of the great business happening over there.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:29 PM   #215
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Not sure you read the whole post. Why would they ban an engine just based on the number of cylinders?
How about for the same reason they think they can ban something explicitly protected from banning, based only on the number of rounds it holds?
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:36 PM   #216
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Ayone with stock in a company that for any reason can have your stock sold off illegally by public servants to reimburse the unsecured creditors that make up their constituents is out of their mind. I'm amazed anyone owns any auto company stock anymore, but I guess I overestimated the intelligence of the average person.

So much dumbing down going on these days, I bet only 10% of the people in this forum even know what it is I am talking about.
Quality sidestep there. Keep preachin' the gospel of those Open Market articles you read on the pooper.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:38 PM   #217
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Very familiar with how the gov. works. All your examples of silly bans were local governments. Again, why would EPA ban an engine based on the number of cylinders? What evidence is there that they look at that at all?

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You are apparently NOT familiar with how government works.

For example they don't have to BAN anything... just make it extremely expensive to own. What if they put a $5000 per cylinder tax on any car with more than 4 cylinders.

But that's beside the point of your qestion... the real answer is that they don't care how many cylinders a car has, it just has to meet some arbitrary standard set so high that it would be impossible to make a car meet the requirement if it had a V8. A "normal" V8 would be too large to fit in such a car. They would have to make a 1.2 liter V8 to fit in a car that passes the standard and that size V8 pretty much defeats the purpose of having a V8 in the first place.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:45 PM   #218
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Who needs the EPA?

They way things are going anyone with a V8 will be a pariah.

Don't believe me? Here's a copy of a foreboding article:



PITTSBURGH (Jan. 4) - In the latest in a string of vandalism carried out in the name of the Earth Liberation Front, members of the radical environmental group are claiming responsibility for a fire at a Pennsylvania auto dealership.

A posting on the group's Web site said the ``attack'' targeted SUVs in a fight ``to remove the profit motive from the killing of the natural environment.''

Jugs of gasoline were set ablaze under three vehicles, engulfing them and a nearby car in flames Wednesday at a dealership in Girard, about 110 miles north of Pittsburgh, FBI Special Agent Bob Rudge said. Three other vehicles also had jugs of gasoline set under them but failed to ignite.

``I have no reason to doubt that it's an individual who committed the acts on behalf of the Earth Liberation Front,'' Rudge said.

The FBI considers the Earth Liberation Front one of the nation's most prolific domestic terrorist organizations. It is thought to be responsible for the 1998 torching of a ski resort in Vail, Colo., an arson that caused $12 million in damage and is considered the most destructive act of eco-terrorism in U.S. history.

ELF is loosely organized. Anyone who carries out an action under the group's guidelines and claims responsibility as part of the organization is considered a member. Over the past year, its name has been attached to a string of vandalism in Pennsylvania.

Last month, the group's Web site said ELF members and cells from the Animal Liberation Front set a Nov. 26 fire at a mink farm in Erie. The fire destroyed a barn, but no animals or people were harmed.

The group also claimed responsibility for an Aug. 11 fire at an unoccupied forest research station near Warren and the torching in March of a construction crane at a bridge work site in Erie, Rudge said.

ELF's claims of responsibility typically come through its Web site, where managers say they serve only as a media conduit for the group. A manager who did not provide an identity said in an e-mail that the communique about Wednesday's fire came in anonymously, as do all reports of ELF attacks.

Rudge said that communique, posted on the Web site, appeared to be authentic because it included information that hadn't been made public.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:58 PM   #219
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First of all, that was over a decade ago in January of 2003. Second, how do the actions of a terrorist organization reflect, "the way things are going" ?
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:41 AM   #220
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First of all, that was over a decade ago in January of 2003. Second, how do the actions of a terrorist organization reflect, "the way things are going" ?
Our current President broke bread at his home with a terrorist.

Again trying to not to get too political, but the current (though outgoing) Energy Secretary does not a own a car, he bicycles to work. He also openly advocates Americans paying the same price for gasoline as Europeans do. Sounds pretty radical to me, and certainly not mainstream.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #221
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This thread is beyond saving.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #222
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You can call it anything you want, you're entitled to your own opinion... just not entitled to your own FACTS.
You know, you say that a lot. I have my facts, I've got the experience and that's what I'm entitled to. I guess in your world, 1-liter bikes get beat by anything with more than 4-cylinders.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #223
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It would be incredibly stupid for GM and Ford to ignore the fastest growing economies and populations on the planet, especially considering they are publicly traded companies with a responsibility to shareholders to pursue expansion opportunities.
Well then it's even dumber to ignore the biggest economy on the planet.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:49 PM   #224
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Well then it's even dumber to ignore the biggest economy on the planet.
At the rate their economy is growing while ours is stagnating/shrinking, it won't be long before we will be the second largest economy in the world.

FYI, even Cuba's GDP is also growing at a faster rate than ours is right now.

What Captain said about how China does business is spot on. I work in high tech and counterfeiting is a huge problem. Anything you build over there, they have the specs/plans/designs/etc for. Then they can then manufacture those things themselves, at a cheaper price, and they employ Chinese citizens to do it. And manufacturing it over here doesn't solve the problem either. Anything made here but exported there they can take apart and 'reverse engineer'. And good luck telling them they better crack down on the Chinese businesses doing the counterfeiting. When someone is loaning you money to pay your bills, you're in no position to tell them how to run their house.
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