43yrs and we've gone backwards?

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Thyshallsmite

http://www.supercars.net/cars/4538.html

Man how the heck did this happen, 43 years and zl1 is slower than a 1969 camaro lol. Know cars are safer and handle a lot better, but damn i got a computer that filled up a whole building in my pocket now, but 2012 zl1 barely faster than a 1969 yenko, man what happend?

I dunno just thought that it was interesting how little cars have come in so long. Hope in another 40yrs we'll all be zooming by in 2000hp hover ZL1s and laugh about how slow old cars are lol.

...Wow...so much wrong I find with this post do I heheh, hmmmm.... <Yoda's voice>, nice to have a pocket Tricorder do you....<Star Trek circa '66>. I surmise your age and experience does not give you the first hand experience of those cars back in the day to those now we are enjoying. Insight to compare such cars, based on the entire package, not just ET's, would make the post an entirely different one. If one takes only what is read on the internet as gospel, without knowing or seeing what different cars did in their heyday based on different metrics across the scale..then opinions would logically be based on a one dimentional scale only on what they read. Apples and oranges they are....but both are heavyweights in their prospective time frames. And you wouldn't want to try to drive a '69 ZL1 on a daily basis, let alone take it for a trip or pleasure rides long distance. Those cars in the day were a pain in the ass to keep going.

[Thyshallsmite]

These were GM approved cars though, and not saying they are better over all cars, cause they definitely aren't saying a 40yr old camaro can out run a current SS or get close or if not better than a ZL1. Its just disappointing that in 40 years that a car that old can even touch the current top of the line camaro. Also a yenko brand new was $26,699.22 in todays money (4200 back then), so it was a cheap affordable car too. I mean that engine was 400hp non boosted, ls3 is what 430hp? we've gone up 30hp in 40 yrs? No doubt we haven't had major improvements, but i mean in 40yrs we have gone from a yenko putting down 12s to the v6 camaro putting down 14s and top of the line at twice the cost barely touching 12s. Straight line speed is why you buy a muscle car, its great that it does so much more and what not now, but simple fact is that a 40yr old car is neck in neck with a brand new top of the line camaro in a drag race, the very idea of what muscle cars were made for.

Also if ya want to look at straight from the factory:
"1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 0-60 mph 5.2 Quarter mile 11.6"
That is a speed that our current modern zl1 can't touch. I get that the cars are better overall, its just why are the cars not world apart in 1/4 mile esp when thats the whole point behind a muscle car. I mean what the heck happened?

[rmyers]

But Onstar can give me directions to the track....could do that in 1969...now could you

[Ninkozl150]

Why is it many of the people talking about the zl1 haven't driven one or don't own one. Go take those old cars around a corner at 40 mph and see where u end up.

[HumanWiki]

Dude... You're just not getting it. After all the replies. Still going right over your head... We have come a long way. You just refuse to see beyond a couple numbers.

[Thyshallsmite]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Dude... You're just not getting it. After all the replies. Still going right over your head... We have come a long way. You just refuse to see beyond a couple numbers.

lol, no i'm not aruging with all your points i'm not arguing that the zl1 is a superior overall car, just saying why did a straight line car not massively improve in a straight line in 40yrs.

[HumanWiki]

That's been explained. Many times.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Thyshallsmite

lol, no i'm not aruging with all your points i'm not arguing that the zl1 is a superior overall car, just saying why did a straight line car not massively improve in a straight line in 40yrs.

Let me put it to you a different way. The 60s were a simpler time and buyers were more concerned with 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Since then we have all grown up and realize there is more to performance than that and want more from our cars than straight line speed. We want a car that can do it all not be good at only one thing. And along with that you have government intervention that put many restrictions on cars that it is much harder today to build a performance car that meets all government regulations.

[alex33x]

I doubt those numbers are accurate, but that's just me.

[Gibroni]

I will for the sake of fodder, bring up one point to somewhat support the OP's premise is that the internal combustion engine remains fundamentally unchanged in what, 80 years?

[MikeSVX]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

I somewhat understand what you are saying...correct me if I'm wrong but you are under the impression that the older cars, specifically the Yenko cars, are faster than todays ZL1. According to that article, I would agree with you BUT what you are forgetting is that the Yenko is not a vehicle from the factory but was made from available parts in the system that he had direct knowledge about. I believe a few other racing inspired dealerships from that era did also.

Those were much simpler times in regards to regulations as compared to today. You open the hood in one of those cars and you could see the ground, with today's cars, not a chance. Technology has evolved as well as people in what they want in their cars and we as Americans want everything in there and we want it all to work. I'd also like to add about the higher level of quality built into them also. I can tell you from the 3 camaro's that I've owned from yesteryear, as much fun they were to drive, I was thankful I had installed a loud enough radio.

I think that with everything that is packed into the ZL1, you are getting more bang for your buck, and you get a factory warranty to boot for a car you can take to the racetrack. Can't say that was possible back then.

True, Yenko wasn't factory. It would be a fairer to compare the Yenko to one of the SLP cars.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by Thyshallsmite

These were GM approved cars though, and not saying they are better over all cars, cause they definitely aren't saying a 40yr old camaro can out run a current SS or get close or if not better than a ZL1. Its just disappointing that in 40 years that a car that old can even touch the current top of the line camaro. Also a yenko brand new was $26,699.22 in todays money (4200 back then), so it was a cheap affordable car too. I mean that engine was 400hp non boosted, ls3 is what 430hp? we've gone up 30hp in 40 yrs? No doubt we haven't had major improvements, but i mean in 40yrs we have gone from a yenko putting down 12s to the v6 camaro putting down 14s and top of the line at twice the cost barely touching 12s. Straight line speed is why you buy a muscle car, its great that it does so much more and what not now, but simple fact is that a 40yr old car is neck in neck with a brand new top of the line camaro in a drag race, the very idea of what muscle cars were made for.

Also if ya want to look at straight from the factory:
"1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 0-60 mph 5.2 Quarter mile 11.6"
That is a speed that our current modern zl1 can't touch. I get that the cars are better overall, its just why are the cars not world apart in 1/4 mile esp when thats the whole point behind a muscle car. I mean what the heck happened?

you really don't know what you are talking about. The ZL1 was a "glitch" in the system really. there were very few built. The ZL1 engine is supposed to be underated as well and more like 500hp something like that

To do what they did back then you would have to find a way to order the LS9 from the plant into the Camaro will having it tuned to say 680hp and GM agree to it.

That being said your numbers are very odd too. I have read articals wher ethey have actually raced yenko cars and such all of them were 13 second cars on factory rubber.

That being said the 69 ZL1 with HEADERS, tune and SLICKS is supposed to be and 11 second car I do belive been a while since I read on these older cars. So few people have them though they sometimes get over hyped. The new supra's are like this becasue people have made them fast people still think the stock ones are just insane and there nothing special.

if you took the current ZL1 put headers and slicks on it it would run close to 10's and be more drivable to boot.

I used to have 12.5 second 69 camaro on street rubber I even had 10 second nova. those cars drove like dump trucks compated to the newer cars. Don't even get me started on stoping distance and gas milage ha ha. my camaro got 8mpg and my nova was not street legal but would have been less.

[Thyshallsmite]

Originally Posted by Gibroni

I will for the sake of fodder, bring up one point to somewhat support the OP's premise is that the internal combustion engine remains fundamentally unchanged in what, 80 years?

Ah ha someone got my point, we keep adding more and more on and cars keep getting more and more expensive yet at the heart of everything we are still using an ancient design, our engine tech seems to be at the rear rather than the front, or maybe GM just doesn't want to put thier best in the camaro i dunno. Imho, the engine and not gadgets need to be the focus of a muscle car, who cares if we got apps and 5 different setting for our suspension and lap timer built in and on star, the focus of a muscle car should always be the engine and it seems like we have drifted away from that. Yes the car goes damn fast around some german track, but this isn't germany we don't have a bunch of winding roads, one of our largest sports is watching cars go in a oval ffs. Think muscle cars need to get back to their American roots and stop trying to impress the European crowd. I dunno thats just my 2 cents on the point i was originally trying to bring up, more muscle in our muscle cars and less gadgets/safety/luxury/track car. I mean isn't that the whole point of a muscle car, roaring down a 1/4 mile?

[rpepka]

Originally Posted by Thyshallsmite

http://www.supercars.net/cars/4538.html

Man how the heck did this happen, 43 years and zl1 is slower than a 1969 camaro lol. Know cars are safer and handle a lot better, but damn i got a computer that filled up a whole building in my pocket now, but 2012 zl1 barely faster than a 1969 yenko, man what happend?

I dunno just thought that it was interesting how little cars have come in so long. Hope in another 40yrs we'll all be zooming by in 2000hp hover ZL1s and laugh about how slow old cars are lol.

Well they have had some setbacks, unleaded gas, safety requirements, CAFÉ regulations, emissions etc… just to name a few.