Homepage Garage Wiki Register Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > V6 LGX Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Cold Air Inductions


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2017, 08:41 AM   #1
PolynesianPowerhouse
Big Samoan ina little car
 
PolynesianPowerhouse's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 camaro
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tofiga Island
Posts: 1,339
Oil Composition, Direct Injection, & Low-Speed Knock article

Something i thought some of you who might invest in tuning in the future would benefit from reading. Also may help some of you performance wise, especially in lower rpm ranges (off the line)

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...w-speed-knock/
__________________
Don't sit around and watch everyone else live YOUR dreams...DO SUMPT'N

When I see posts asking "whats the best intake, exhaust, etc" .... the answer to that is like a grandfather telling his grandkids "if you put salt on a birds tail, it'll let you catch it" #ThinkAboutIt

"Winning Tip: Don't take my (or anyone else's) word for it. GO TEST IT!" - Dennis Grant
PolynesianPowerhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 09:49 AM   #2
LibertyHill

 
LibertyHill's Avatar
 
Drives: 16 2SS 6MT NPP MRC / 15 K1300S
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: NW of Austin
Posts: 1,030
Great info thanks!
__________________

Rohana RFX-5 10/11, M/T 275/305, Eibachs, Hellwigs, Hurst SS, DMS LT4 SC 596HP/589TQ, DMS Low-side, Kooks 2LTs, MBRP Race, Rotofab, MMS CC
LibertyHill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 10:33 AM   #3
Dustya
 
Drives: Overkill Supercharged 2016 CamaroV6
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 583
Very nice hopefully they release some more detailed results on Brands etc...
__________________
Hyperhawk - 2016 Camaro 2LT RS - Follow me on Instagram @hyperhawkcamaro
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHR...-ilSpV3gMQnTuA

Supercharged with Overkill Superchargers http://www.v6superchargers.com
Dustya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 03:07 PM   #4
Elite Engineering


 
Elite Engineering's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 994
This is info we have been sharing for app a year now in our technical posts. Piston failure when LSPI occurs is one of the # one failures GDI engine experience, and turbo charged are more prone. Oil mist mixed with fuel introduced at 2000-3000 PSI gets behind the rings and the resulting detonation is powerful enough to break the piston generally at the top ring land. The LLT and LFX as well as Ford Ecoboost and many other makes (GM 2.0T early versions in the Caddy ATS were horrible for this, GM replaced pistons with thicker construction for the Camaro) and Amsoil recently released their new Signature Series and all street blends with a new formulation that greatly reduces this by rendering the mixture non-explosive. Our dual valve full time evacuation systems also have been removing these vapors before they can reach levels of causing this as well.


Great info, keep up the research Nui!


Education about these engines most assume are no different than the past port injection ones is so needed. This is another era and you cannot just follow the owners manual or misinformed dealers direction on maintenance. You must take steps and get involved again in the care of your engine as in "the old days".
Elite Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 08:09 PM   #5
Dustya
 
Drives: Overkill Supercharged 2016 CamaroV6
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 583
Most of the information that is posted is pretty technical and goes over most peoples heads, I feel this article helps bring the explanation a bit more on the level of the common car enthusiast. I definitely enjoyed reading it.
__________________
Hyperhawk - 2016 Camaro 2LT RS - Follow me on Instagram @hyperhawkcamaro
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHR...-ilSpV3gMQnTuA

Supercharged with Overkill Superchargers http://www.v6superchargers.com
Dustya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 09:11 PM   #6
17LGX
 
Drives: 2014 Stingray, 2017 Cadillac XT5
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11
Very interesting article and I look forward to the next chapter in their testing.

This one paragraph explains the issue very well:
“It has nothing to do with the amount of oil in the combustion chamber, or if the engine is consuming oil or not. There’s going to be oil in the upper ring zone in every properly lubricated engine. It’s a question of whether the oil in the upper ring zone has a tendency to hold fuel, or not. If the fuel mixes with the oil, and the oil creates an emulsion, if you will, where it holds the fuel in the oil, that’s where things can begin to go bad,” says Speed.

Leading up to this statement, there is another influence in the amount of splash on the cylinder walls under the pistons.

The test is being conducted on a GM LT1 which the majority can identify with directly.
17LGX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:33 PM   #7
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 12,773
Good read, but wish there was a conclusion to go with it.

I'm left with the question: So which oil should I be buying?

A few years back, when I still owned my 2010 V6 with the LLT, I had done a lot of reading on a similar subject seeing as how at times an LLT would pop for apparently no reason, and saw posts and evidence showing that the high end Pennzoil Platinum oil was a good choice for these engines. That's what I'm still running today.

I see that Elite says "Amsoil Signature" is a good choice. Anyone else have an insight?
__________________
2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties
2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 03:15 PM   #8
cellsafemode

 
cellsafemode's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 2,165
ILSAC GF-6 and Dexos1 oil post-2015 are oil formulations that directly try and work to reduce stochastic pre-ignition.

So pick an oil that meets those specs and you'll be as best prepared to avoid this predetonation issue as possible.
cellsafemode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 05:54 PM   #9
Elite Engineering


 
Elite Engineering's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 994
Amsoil recently released a new formulation of all of their street use oils that render those vapors non-explosive. So far in their testing (and they do extensive testing) it has eliminated most or all of this issue. M1 may be following as well with a new formulation. Of course a proper dual valve catchcan system that pulls evacuation at all times will eliminate most of this as well as it is constantly flushing and evacuating all vapors from the crankcase.
Elite Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2017, 05:03 PM   #10
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 12,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellsafemode View Post
ILSAC GF-6 and Dexos1 oil post-2015 are oil formulations that directly try and work to reduce stochastic pre-ignition.

So pick an oil that meets those specs and you'll be as best prepared to avoid this predetonation issue as possible.
Hrrmm....the Pennzoil Platinum (not Ultra Platinum) has the following description. It is not ILSAC GF-6, but does mention Dexos1, but not sure if it confirms to post 2015 guidelines. Not wondering if I should switch yet again, to Amsoil.

Late EDIT: The Amsoil signature series also shows ILSAC GF-5 spec, but specifically mentions protection from pre-ignition, while the Pennzoil does not, although I guess that doesn't mean it does not provide that protection. Ehhh...who knows lol.

Pennzoil PlatinumŪ Full Synthetic Motor Oil with PurePlusŪ Technology

Industry specifications:
◾API SN, SM, SL and SJ
◾ACEA A1/B1-10, A1/B1-12 and ACEA A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12 (SAE 5W-30)
◾ILSAC GF-5 ◾Exceeds ILSAC GF-5 engine cleansing and protection requirements


OEM specifications:
◾Chrysler MS-6395 (SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
◾Ford WSS-M2C930-A and WSS-M2C945-A (SAE 5W-20)
◾Ford WSS-M2C929-A and WSS-M2C946-A (SAE 5W-30)
◾Ford WSS-M2C947-A (SAE 0W-20)
◾GM 6094M (SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
◾GM 4718M (Corvette and Cadillac) (SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
◾GM dexos1™ Certification (SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30)
◾Honda/Acura HTO-06 (SAE 5W-30)
◾Volvo (SAE 5W-30)

Specifications may vary by viscosity grade. Beginning with its 2011 model year vehicles, GM began recommending oils meeting the GM dexos1™ oil performance level for for all gasoline engine vehicles. Pennzoil PlatinumŪ 5W-30 Full Synthetic Motor Oil exceeds GM dexos1™ specifications. These specifications are to be used as guidelines only. Please refer to your individual vehicle owner's manual for proper viscosity grade and specification of oil to use.
__________________
2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties
2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2017, 06:30 PM   #11
cellsafemode

 
cellsafemode's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 2,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Hrrmm....the Pennzoil Platinum (not Ultra Platinum) has the following description. It is not ILSAC GF-6, but does mention Dexos1, but not sure if it confirms to post 2015 guidelines. Not wondering if I should switch yet again, to Amsoil.

Late EDIT: The Amsoil signature series also shows ILSAC GF-5 spec, but specifically mentions protection from pre-ignition, while the Pennzoil does not, although I guess that doesn't mean it does not provide that protection. Ehhh...who knows lol.

Pennzoil PlatinumŪ Full Synthetic Motor Oil with PurePlusŪ Technology

Industry specifications:
◾API SN, SM, SL and SJ
◾ACEA A1/B1-10, A1/B1-12 and ACEA A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12 (SAE 5W-30)
◾ILSAC GF-5 ◾Exceeds ILSAC GF-5 engine cleansing and protection requirements


OEM specifications:
◾Chrysler MS-6395 (SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
◾Ford WSS-M2C930-A and WSS-M2C945-A (SAE 5W-20)
◾Ford WSS-M2C929-A and WSS-M2C946-A (SAE 5W-30)
◾Ford WSS-M2C947-A (SAE 0W-20)
◾GM 6094M (SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
◾GM 4718M (Corvette and Cadillac) (SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
◾GM dexos1™ Certification (SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30)
◾Honda/Acura HTO-06 (SAE 5W-30)
◾Volvo (SAE 5W-30)

Specifications may vary by viscosity grade. Beginning with its 2011 model year vehicles, GM began recommending oils meeting the GM dexos1™ oil performance level for for all gasoline engine vehicles. Pennzoil PlatinumŪ 5W-30 Full Synthetic Motor Oil exceeds GM dexos1™ specifications. These specifications are to be used as guidelines only. Please refer to your individual vehicle owner's manual for proper viscosity grade and specification of oil to use.
The problem has been known and researched since 2013 at least by the OEM's. They seem to indicate that some particular additive with calcium leads to effectively lowering the octane of the fuel in the combustion chamber. The articles i saw didn't go into detail on which additive. This was a big problem a few years ago, it should be mostly eliminated except for those people who get their oil changed with mystery oil (not the brand). At least eliminated to the point where it causes physical piston damage.

for info on GF-6....which is specifically designed to eliminate this problem https://passenger.lubrizoladditives3...ications/gf-6/
It seems actually labeling the GF-6 standard on oil is not being done yet. However, this doesn't mean oil companies aren't putting out oil now that meets it (particularly those that "exceed GF-5").

edit: in lieu of having GF-6 labeled oil and not being sure if you're using dexos1 gen1 or gen 2 (gen 2 is good) then we can just go to the manufacturers directly. It looks like Amsoil upgraded all their full synth oils to not include the problem additive so you can basically pick any of the signature series and be fine. They even advertise 100% protection against it.

Pennzoil full synth is also good. It exceeds the dexos1 gen2 spec. https://noln.net/2016/05/06/pennzoil...2015-approval/

So with the lineup of full synth from amsoil and pennzoil covered, that should take care of most people. Mobil1 is probably also good these days as far as lspi. So as long as you've been either doing your own oil changes or ensuring that these oils are being used when you have your oil changed by someone else, you should be golden.

Blended oils can also be acceptable, however I expect anyone who is using blended oils vs full synth probably doesn't care enough about their oil anyway to bother reading a forum about it.

Last edited by cellsafemode; 10-31-2017 at 06:53 PM.
cellsafemode is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.