[Redlinez]

Dang, I was gonna recommend the titanium shims. Good luck!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Padge23

Thanks to all for the advice, sounds like staying stock is the recommendation and that is good to hear. I'm going a different route however...before I wrote this OP, I ordered the AP Racing BBK for the front with the 390mm rotors. I too have had a very good experience with Ken at KNS and placed the order with him. Perhaps this is more than I need, but these components are all about heat management and there is one particular local track configuration which has "cooked" my front calipers (they are now a much darker shade of red and the "1" in 1LE is a light brown) and I experienced brake fade after about 15 minutes during each session. I've always run with titanium pad shims and SRF fluid (luckily). Anyway, I prefer the extra insurance.

5% larger discs will do fine, but dont expect miracles, as long as you continue using high torque pads. Ask Ken about top grade pads that put out less heat and your calipers will live a long happy life (and wont discolor) and your pedal wont go soft after 15mins and give ya fade.

Btw, when i ran APs i still had to rebuild them fairly regularly when paired with DSUNOS. That's why they (Essex) sell rebuild kits and even offer inhouse mail in service. There is no such thing as free lunch (advertising notwithstanding

Best of luck and Cheers!

[Padge23]

Thanks, your experience is always greatly appreciated. Just looking for a little extra insurance and also for some reason really liking the extra thickness on the pads (25mm vs say 16mm). With respect to pads - with the purchase of the kit, you get the first set of Ferodo pads at roughly 50% off, I was leaning toward the 1.11 pads but Ken suggested the 3.12 pads and I went with those. Sounds like you'd recommend a lower torque pad - DS2500's maybe?

[TJay74]

I went with the Girodisc rings on my 1LE. I would check them or the DBA discs out if you decide to not go the OEM disc/ring route.

[Padge23]

Thanks TJay74, you ever get down to the North Texas tracks? I know crossing the Red River can be intimidating for Norman folks (other than to go to the Cotton Bowl once a year).

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Padge23

Thanks, your experience is always greatly appreciated. Just looking for a little extra insurance and also for some reason really liking the extra thickness on the pads (25mm vs say 16mm). With respect to pads - with the purchase of the kit, you get the first set of Ferodo pads at roughly 50% off, I was leaning toward the 1.11 pads but Ken suggested the 3.12 pads and I went with those. Sounds like you'd recommend a lower torque pad - DS2500's maybe?

Thanks, appreciate it. Looks like you've done some good research. Indeed, i would defo go with a lower torque pad. Check with Ken what choices are offered for this kit.
When i purchased mine, i only had limited choices. To be clear, mine was a Sprint version, but my car was a sub 3000lb C5Z dedicated track car (aka a trailer queen).

3.12 is the newest and highest torque Ferodo by a mile.
Even with DSUNOs (which used to be a dop dog) my seals would go and pistons eventually stick and drag - leading to a rebuild. I too used the 25mil pads, they lasted longer, but not that much. Maybe 2-3 days extra.
Overall i liked the kit, but I recall paying thru the nose for pads and replacement discs. That's one of the issues with a proprietary kit: you can no longer hunt for cheap OEM parts at Rockauto etc.

To this end: did ya by AP Racing Essex, or a factory kit?

More musings on the pads: much depends on what venues one attends. At tracks with mostly high speed sweepers and long straight(s) brakes have sufficient cooling to recover, no matter what heat a pad will generate. But, at "bull ring" style venues with tons of slow/mid speed corners and short straights, the brakes simply may not have sifficient opportunity to recover and cause heat soak. And fry things as a consequence.

Heat management is the very top priority for any race/performance brake manufacturer and ditto for any race team. That's a fact, even though their design purpose and expectations are much different than ours (a race vs several track days, or even a full season of lapping).
Pad choice plays a dominant role here imo. And even at the highest level of pro racing (like IMSA), teams often run low/mid torque pads. But again, this may depend on the venue, length of a race, driver preference, etc.

Another thing to consider is ability to trail brake and use brakes to rotate the car (which is crucial for late braking, fast corner entry rotations and good laptimes). While any pad will permit this, lower torque pads wont stand a car on its nose and hence are easier to carry into a corner and modulate as necessary, while managing weight transfer being easier for a driver.

Hope this helps. Many of us like different choices here, just like many pros like different choices too. So there is no one perfect answer here plus many variables. But a rule of thumb is this: if you get fade, lower the pad torque. And always pay attention to brake heat management - regardless. Cheers!

[Padge23]

Sorry if I was unclear, yes, I have already purchased the AP Racing kit, even before I made the original post. From what I can gather on future costs, it looks like the pads are roughly comparable to the same type pads that fit the stock calipers (for example, Ferodo's from KNS are actually less expensive - go figure), and given the slightly longer life of the thicker pads, they should save a little $ over time. The AP replacement rotor rings are no doubt more expensive than DBA/Girodisk/stock replacement rings, nearly double. So my working theory is that the savings on the pads will help offset the extra expense of the replacement rings, not completely cancelling it out, but to some extent.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Padge23

Sorry if I was unclear, yes, I have already purchased the AP Racing kit, even before I made the original post. From what I can gather on future costs, it looks like the pads are roughly comparable to the same type pads that fit the stock calipers (for example, Ferodo's from KNS are actually less expensive - go figure), and given the slightly longer life of the thicker pads, they should save a little $ over time. The AP replacement rotor rings are no doubt more expensive than DBA/Girodisk/stock replacement rings, nearly double. So my working theory is that the savings on the pads will help offset the extra expense of the replacement rings, not completely cancelling it out, but to some extent.

Looks like a sound set of assumptions!

I am very surprised that 25mil pads are "cheaper". Cheaper than what though? OEM stockers/ 2500 from Rockauto/Strano? That would be one hell of a surprise to me! Can ya pls elaborate here as it is an interesting point in your savings calcs.

Did ya buy factory AP Racing kit, or an Essex one? When i bought mine, some time later they changed the caliper design and with it a hat offset and i was screwed for new hats. Just an fyi. Things might be different now though.

Last point: run the same pads F and R to maintain proper brake bias, that our cars are designed for. Especially if F pads are larger than stock. Do NOT stagger the compounds!

Cheers!

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Padge23

This forum is about information on the cars (I think) and I tried to provide some. I'm probably overly sensitive since this was my first substantive post, but I've seen it happen to others as well. I think it is funny that the responses generally take this to the personal level of essentially stating in some form "you are a moron for buying these". I know that, I established that, I made a mistake and I paid the monetary penalty. Based on that mistake I'm simply trying to provide info that may help others in the forum - maybe you never would have made this mistake, if so, you can easily ignore - for any others, aren't you glad you didn't have to pay for this info yourself?

I was trying to upgrade the car, something a lot of folks on this forum try to do, what if these rotors had been the next best thing since sliced bread, lasted forever and dissipated heat like no body's business? Maybe we shouldn't jump on OP's for at least trying to provide useful info, otherwise they may quit posting?

To a similar end, a couple of other mods that I don't think were worth the money were the G-Force aluminum driveshaft and the Anderson Composites rear deck lid. I do not consider these complete failures like the RB rotors, but they were both - how do I say this, "subject to some misleading weight savings information". Yes, I know, I am a moron for these purchases as well, feel free to respond as such if that somehow makes you feel better about yourself. Or, in an effort to save you the trouble - you are a better/smarter person than I, in fact I think you are perfect, now please go forth be happy and spread joy.

TrackClub, I know you always have the best intentions. I completely agree the driver mod is the weakest link in my current set-up, I'm still new to track days, and I absolutely love working on that mod at every opportunity my schedule allows. But hey, I'm also a gear head and my nature is just that I will always try to improve the car side of the equation as well.

I had to bring this over from the funny picture thread.

Thanks for posting about the poor results you had with those rotors.
Like you said, you took one for the team, this may save someone else from the same results.

If I could have all the money I wasted on car parts, my retirement would be in Honolulu Hawaii rather that Trenton NJ.

[Padge23]

I was simply comparing the same Ferodo (sorry, does that not sound like the name of a character from The Hobbit?) compound, say DS1.11, in both the stock caliper size vs the AP 9668 caliper size. Stock caliper size from KNS is $496 vs $470 for the AP.

It is the Essex kit. Thanks again, please keep all recommendations coming.

[Padge23]

Good stuff Boost Creep, thank you. You'd probably get sick of Honolulu anyway, but not your car(s) : - )

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Padge23

Good stuff Boost Creep, thank you. You'd probably get sick of Honolulu anyway, but not your car(s) : - )

lol
Looking at the map, I'd be bouncing off the walls on Honolulu, would need at least Hawaii.

[Padge23]

Yep, I think the locals refer to that as Island Fever - the island (normally Oahu) can feel pretty small after a while.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Padge23

I was simply comparing the same Ferodo (sorry, does that not sound like the name of a character from The Hobbit?) compound, say DS1.11, in both the stock caliper size vs the AP 9668 caliper size. Stock caliper size from KNS is $496 vs $470 for the AP.

It is the Essex kit. Thanks again, please keep all recommendations coming.

I like Oahu, but prefer the Big Island personally. Albeit not nearly as many G string bikinis there

As to the pads, is a stocker pad larger vs your AP? And is this $470 for a 25mil? If so, a great price! I pay just over $200 for stockers, which is just awesome as far as cost to performance ratio. Given i target 20 days per season, consumables can add up in a hurry and saving $ is a priority for me.

In this vain, 1.11 has the best longevity of any Ferodo racing pad, yet, it is quite a significant step up torque wise over a stocker, or 2500. It also has a nice flat torque curve, which is easy to manage. But, it should run much, much cooler vs 3.12. So i would suggest you put it on your list as a much more economical, proven, higher torque pad.
Ditto 2500 if it fits your new kit, simply to keep heat down and hence conserve the whole brake assembly, hubs and yes: tires.

NB I do think Ken is a super nice guy and very accommodating. But i am not at all sure how much first hand experience he has wrt products he sells. So use your own judgement