[HogsFan75]

Originally Posted by irmb

I'm not a spinster - and I haven't been here long.

But I am a businessperson/salesperson - and looking at sales numbers that focus on quantity sold - not total revenue or total margin is to put it bluntly, stupid.

You don't make money on units sold. You don't even make money on gross revenue - but it's a better indicator. You make money on margin.

Camaro has sold fewer units - but at higher prices.

Any business person would tell you this is preferable.

I understand what you are saying but I disagree with that take.

Being a "leader" in sales has always been a huge part of automotive marketing.
Do you really think they like being dead last in segment sales with a brand new refreshed platform? Also being beat by the Challenger which is more or less the same for 8 years. I think from a sales and marketing standpoint that can't be sitting well with GM.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I agree, as i quoted myself, that the numbers are low, but give it some more time, we can reschedule the Camaro vs. Mustang rumble for later.



I agree, if they have that much inventory on hand...seems they aren't meeting goals. But I don't know the industry well enough to know if 4 months is bad, horrible, armageddon etc.

I believe industry average is around 60 to 70 days. So 4 months = 120 days would be about double the average amount

[SpookShow'84]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I was willing to listen to the higher profits thing before but with 4 months of inventory sitting on lots (if thats true) and continuing poor sales the Camaro is not making money no matter how you spin it. You don't make profit in any business by stacking your inventory deeper each month and not rotating out old stock. Just sayin...

I've been keeping a real close eye on the 1SS cars within about 50-100mi of me. Almost all of them are still sitting there after 4-5 months. Very few dealers are getting them to move.

In December of last year I sat in a 1SS, NFG, M6 car, black 5 spokes, really slick car. It's still there now, even after 2 months of being priced in the low $34k range. They're piling up for sure, look at car guru and see how many have been on the lot 120+ days, it's shocking.

The longer they sit there the worse the car gets too. The one I'm jonesing for has sat there for so long the lot wash monkeys have ruined the paint by washing the car with sandpaper apparently.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Don't worry guys, being dead last to its competitors in a brand new refresh was all part of the plan. Said no businessman ever. Lol.

It sucks but it's the truth. The introduction of the 1LE and ZL1 should help but those are low volume models. The Camaro is the hardest to live with out of the three and it's showing. GM shouldn't have listened to the 5th gen fans when remodeling this one. I really want a 1LE but cross shopping a scat pack and GT PP are also on my list. Depending on pricing so is a 2015 Z/28.

LOL.

Sorry the Mustang is superior in the areas that sell cars. Looks. Price. Interior visibility. Usable back seats and trunk.

Performance is great but heck, what is GM doing, trying to make the Camaro a Vette-competitor? That's their 2 seat sports car. NOT the Camaro!

The Camaro is basically a 2-seater. You couldn't fit a midget in back. Might as well pay a bit more to get the Vette if you care about performance and get status bonus. The Camaro has NO status.

Most are just opting for the great overall cars in Mustang and heck, Challenger.

And, no, in this business you don't make more profit selling fewer cars. They have 90% fixed costs at a plant. Period.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Camaro fleet was around 16-18% and is said to be 8-10% now. Sales are not off because of the GM wide fleet reduction.

I understand this doesn't equate to all the reduced sales numbers for Camaro, but WILL YOU agree that it has lowered the sales of Camaro by AT LEAST ONE unit?

[aestil]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Look, this is not bitching when the facts are clear that the newest version of the Camaro is DROPPING in sales numbers each month while the other two competitors' numbers are rising.

This disingenuous assumption that GM is selling the number they want is ludicrous. If that is the case, they would not have a 4 month inventory on the lots and they would not be making more and more each day only to see them get stacked deeper with the hope that, well, they will sell eventually and we will make the big bucks when it does.

Just like the 5th Gen Z/28.

I don't buy it for one minute that this declining sales number is or will remain acceptable. While making good profit on the car that is sold is good business, selling LESS and LESS of them each month is not sound sales strategy. You would not want to incur production costs in an item for sale IF IT DOES NOT SELL and the sales drop consecutively.

When buyers see the lots getting more and more of the cars just sitting there the thought process is that 'Any day now will be the fire sale with big rebates'. So they wait even more - or go buy a Mustang or Challenger.

And we all know that using rebates to move product tells you one thing - it was overpriced to begin with. GRRR!

This has nothing to do with selling more than Ford or Dodge - it has to do with selling what you make. If what you make does not sell, there is a problem.

GM has a problem with the new Camaro sales plain and simple and anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand. You can argue that they would have more incentives if they were worried but GM has proven before that they wait too late to do enough things that should have been done long before the ax fell.

1) They sold more in July than in June, so sales did not drop every month [maybe you meant year over year sales are down, which if so, I do believe that they expected to sell fewer of the 6th Gen than of the 5th Gen. You don't significantly increase the cost of a product and then expect to sell more of that product. Increased cost nearly ALWAYS leads directly to fewer sales.]

2) I have a real problem with using the Cars.com 'inventory' as a method of counting how many products are on dealer lots. There has to be a better way than that. If there is not, I just can't accept that data as accurate since there is no way of validating it.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by hangover

LOL.

Sorry the Mustang is superior in the areas that sell cars. Looks. Price. Interior visibility. Usable back seats and trunk.

Performance is great but heck, what is GM doing, trying to make the Camaro a Vette-competitor? That's their 2 seat sports car. NOT the Camaro!

The Camaro is basically a 2-seater. You couldn't fit a midget in back. Might as well pay a bit more to get the Vette if you care about performance and get status bonus. The Camaro has NO status.

Most are just opting for the great overall cars in Mustang and heck, Challenger.

And, no, in this business you don't make more profit selling fewer cars. They have 90% fixed costs at a plant. Period.

Maybe right on why the car isn't selling, maybe. But GM disagrees with your assertion that they must sell more cars to make the same or equal profits. They have increased their margin per sale, but I suppose that's bad in this industry.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I was willing to listen to the higher profits thing before but with 4 months of inventory sitting on lots (if thats true) and continuing poor sales the Camaro is not making money no matter how you spin it. You don't make profit in any business by stacking your inventory deeper each month and not rotating out old stock. Just sayin...

Food for thought, 6th Gen Camaros available at the beginning of the month:

June - 19,500
July - 22, 800
August - 24,500

They are either over producing, under selling or both.

Also, May, June and July sales are off 36.9% from 2015 and 35.5% of from the average of those months since 2010.

[irmb]

Originally Posted by hangover

And, no, in this business you don't make more profit selling fewer cars. They have 90% fixed costs at a plant. Period.

I'm sure you accidentally left a few words out of this sentence.

90% of their costs may be fixed - but sale price isn't.

[Memphis43]

I've talked to a rep about the sales and they are indeed worried. No, they did not think it would be this low.

End of story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I understand this doesn't equate to all the reduced sales numbers for Camaro, but WILL YOU agree that it has lowered the sales of Camaro by AT LEAST ONE unit?

Of course it has had some effect but the amount has been overblown for the last few months we've been discussing sales.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Maybe right on why the car isn't selling, maybe. But GM disagrees with your assertion that they must sell more cars to make the same or equal profits. They have increased their margin per sale, but I suppose that's bad in this industry.

If that's GM's business model to sell fewer cars it's no wonder they went bankrupt and discontinued the Camaro before (and it looks like they will again).

Volume is what car sales are all about. Period. That's how you get REPEAT BUSINESS.

Look it up.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Don't worry guys, being dead last to its competitors in a brand new refresh was all part of the plan. Said no businessman ever. Lol.

It is very conceivable that GM is not looking to compare the Camaro directly to the Mustang or Challenger anymore and is therefore not concerned with selling as many of those units.

First of all historically the Mustang has always sold more, secondly the Camaro is probably more profitable per unit than the Mustang is. I see this car selling around 60k units a year, and I think that's probably just fine for GM, if they can sell more cars through word of mouth and good press, then that's great. If they don't then I'm fairly certain 60k of these cars at the higher ATP for the 6th Gen car will lead to plenty of profit out of the program.

[90503]

Yeah, another "disappointing" month....But looking at the chart below and the sales numbers for most of the other GM passenger car models like Cadillac, Buick, Sonic, etc.,....the Camaro doesn't look that bad...lol...

I hope GM stops producing a lot of other "losers" before they pull the plug on the Camaro....lol...

Congrats to Mustang and Challenger for outselling the Camaro again this month....It's still a long haul ahead and even though sales numbers are lower compared to Mustang and Dodge, I would just consider the Camaro has to first "compete" with it's own other GM models for sales first....and it doesn't look all that terrible to me....Sales of Camaro are up over last month, at least that's something!...lol...