[BigDan]

I'd almost pay money to see Randy Pobst take a LS and GT500 PP to Laguna Seca and spend all day getting to know just those 2 cars and report back to us with the results and his feelings, heck take out the whole staff (or ones willing to take a 550hp SRA car to the edge around one of the world's best tracks) + Randy and get everybody's opinion. That would be a home run in auto media.

No publication has yet to run a GT500PP with a pro driver like Randy all out at Laguna Secca. It would be epic to see them same track, same day, same pro driver for an intense battle. Maybe do a tour of popular US track with the duo like most owners do.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by BigDan

I'd almost pay money to see Randy Pobst take a LS and GT500 PP to Laguna Seca and spend all day getting to know just those 2 cars and report back to us with the results and his feelings, heck take out the whole staff (or ones willing to take a 550hp SRA car to the edge around one of the world's best tracks) + Randy and get everybody's opinion. That would be a home run in auto media.

No publication has yet to run a GT500PP with a pro driver like Randy all out at Laguna Secca. It would be epic to see them same track, same day, same pro driver for an intense battle. Maybe do a tour of popular US track with the duo

[thePill]

Originally Posted by BigDan

I'd almost pay money to see Randy Pobst take a LS and GT500 PP to Laguna Seca and spend all day getting to know just those 2 cars and report back to us with the results and his feelings, heck take out the whole staff (or ones willing to take a 550hp SRA car to the edge around one of the world's best tracks) + Randy and get everybody's opinion. That would be a home run in auto media.

No publication has yet to run a GT500PP with a pro driver like Randy all out at Laguna Secca. It would be epic to see them same track, same day, same pro driver for an intense battle. Maybe do a tour of popular US track with the duo like most owners do.

I'd pitch in some cash on that idea, in all honesty though.. I think Randy still has some left in him when he's driving for Motor Trend... I mean, he gives a verbal tutorial while driving. That's a difficult task to drive like that and focus on something other than the driving. When I do some spirited driving and my wife ask ridiculous questions or the usual nonsense I either:
a.) Slow down and shut off my selective hearing.
b.) Keep driving until she sounds like Charlie Browns' teacher.
or
c.) Try to do both and not be very good at either driving or communicating.

Just my 2 cents, but I think its possible that he has quite a bit more in him.... but Randy is no Stig... Randy is way better....

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by thePill

A new list was put up literally an hour after you posted. It still isn't known what Jonathan Bomarito (2010 Daytona GT class winner) ran the Boss 302 Laguna Seca at exactly, but Ford said it was under 1:39, I can't see it being much lower than 1:39, maybe a 1:38.50-1:38.99. He pulled consistent 1:40's in the Boss 302... Anyway, someone must be listening to our conversations.. here is the new list that was put up an hour after you posted. If editors are posting lightning laps like this, I can see the LS getting close to that 997 Turbo.

That's impressive. Didn't they run the 2011 GT500 yet? I didn't see it.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's impressive. Didn't they run the 2011 GT500 yet? I didn't see it.

No, not yet. They probably will just skip to the 2012 GT500 as they are being delivered as we speak. It looks like the GT500's are gradually losing a few pounds between model years. The one IL used weighed 3808lbs, Big Dan said the C&D one weighed 3751lbs. I wonder if that was with a full tank or not.

The '12 GT500 vs '12 Boss should be similar but I am digging through all the forums tryin to see if the rumored 5.8 is a bored 5.4 or the stroked 5.0 for the 2013 GT500. It's pretty clear that the 5.4 cannot be bored out in fear of cylinder wall issues. It would render the indestructible bottom end useless if the cylinder walls were weak from boring. The 2012 could be the last 5.4, it will forever be sold though Ford Racing though...

A stroked 5.0 would reduce the curb weight as well as the Getrag transmission. If Ford is in a contract with Tremec, they might have to use a 6060 but that's unclear (Tremec is losing alot of business lately). I'm figuring another 60lbs off the front with the 5.0/Getrag combo. I know the deck height is taller, rods are longer and some assorted accessories will need some extra length so the 30lb difference from the 5.0 and the 5.4 might be a few pound to generous. I have to find the weights of the superchargers too, The TVS 2.3 is heavier than the 1.9 but I need to find out if there was a reduction in weight over the previous GT500 supercharger. I would love to see a 5.0 with a 4.0 Twin screw super-crusher...

The MT-82 comes from Getrag ready to handle the power, but would fair better with a dual mass flywheel and twin clutch so the 109lb transmission would be about 30lbs heavier.. but still 40lbs lighter than a DC TR6060.

I will sh!t myself if Ford can get this thing down to 3700lbs flat... This suspension upgrade should be a little lighter so I hear, but nothing major. There is also whispers that the 2013 Boss will get a slight refresh as the 1970 Boss did (Championship season), who the hell knows what is left for the Boss in 2013. Less weight, maybe a slight HP/TQ boost, Direct injection... who knows...

I also caught some conversation on GM Inside New from "someone in the know". Don't know how valuable this actually is but the forum members seem to worship him (name withheld)

You know, there were lots of us life long Camaro fans, who worked and lobbied behind the scenes for years, to bring back the Camaro. And I'm not just talking about the post Camaro concept car period, when it's return was a virtual foregone conclusion either. I'm talking about years before that. The dark days, when the 4th gen was on it's deathwalk and very little political will for a new Camaro existed at GM. And shortly thereafter, when GM imposed a gag order on the word "Camaro". We needed to refer to this car as the "Chevy Ponycar" in polite conversation with official GM people. Good Lord.

ALL of us, and I mean ALL of us, described what we wanted in a Z/28 with near excruciating detail. And we ALL delivered the exact same message. The Z/28 which we all wanted GM to build for us, was essentially what Ford did with such clarity with the Boss. I don't know how we could have possibly delivered our message any more clearly or strongly than we repeatedly did to GM.

If some of those other Camaro enthusiast folks read this, (you know who you are ), I hope they'll chime in, but I'll just speak for myself here. Whether it was in person, on the phone or via email, I personally delivered this undiluted message of what my expectations were for the Z/28 to Bob Lutz, to various layers of management, to the Camaro VLE, down to the actual Camaro Team. I interacted with dozens of people at GM over the years on this. Somehow, what GM got out of all of that was, " oh, we've got it, you want a supercharged, 4100 pound, Z/28". HUH?!??!?

Something must have collectively clicked at GM when Mustang announced the Boss though. Some how, some way, they decided they needed to save the Z/28 name for something more appropriate.

I've got my fingers crossed.

They need to drop some weight, I just don't see where this can be done at... and in Motor Trend's ZL1 video, they say that the ZL1 will have chassis bracing (like I said) and revised suspension geometry .. That is going to put on some weight on too but I already figured that into my number (somewhat).

Edit: It looks like the Twin Vortices Series superchargers are on average 7lbs heavier (unit vs unit) than a Twin Screw... Everything else in the kit should be the same weight (or very close).

[sik68]

Originally Posted by BigDan

It would be epic to see them same track, same day, same pro driver for an intense battle. Maybe do a tour of popular US track with the duo like most owners do.

Here here!

[coolman]

Originally Posted by thePill

No, not yet. They probably will just skip to the 2012 GT500 as they are being delivered as we speak. It looks like the GT500's are gradually losing a few pounds between model years. The one IL used weighed 3808lbs, Big Dan said the C&D one weighed 3751lbs. I wonder if that was with a full tank or not.

I am digging through all the forums tryin to see if the rumored 5.8 is a bored 5.4 or the stroked 5.0. It's pretty clear that the 5.4 cannot be bored out in fear of cylinder wall issues. It would render the indestructible bottom end useless if the cylinder walls were weak from boring. The 2012 could be the last 5.4, it will forever be sold though Ford Racing though...

A stroked 5.0 would reduce the curb weight as well as the Getrag transmission. If Ford is in a contract with Tremec, they might have to use a 6060 but that's unclear (Tremec is losing alot of business lately). I'm figuring another 60lbs off the front with the 5.0/Getrag combo. I know the deck height is taller, rods are longer and some assorted accessories will need some extra length so the 30lb difference from the 5.0 and the 5.4 might be a few pound to generous. I have to find the weights of the superchargers too, The TVS 2.3 is heavier than the 1.9 but I need to find out if there was a reduction in weight over the previous GT500 supercharger. I would love to see a 5.0 with a 4.0 Twin screw supercrusher...

The MT-82 comes from Getrag ready to handle the power, but would fair better with a dual mass flywheel and twin clutch so the 109lb transmission would be about 30lbs heavier.. but still 40lbs lighter than a DC TR6060.

I will sh!t myself if Ford can get this thing down to 3700lbs flat... This suspension upgrade should be a little lighter so I hear, but nothing major.

I also caught some conversation on GM Inside New from "someone in the know". Don't know how valuable this actually is but the forum members seem to worship him (name withheld)

They need to drop some weight, I just don't see where this can be done at... and in Motor Trend's ZL1 video, they say that the ZL1 will have chassis bracing (like I said) and revised suspension geometry .. That is going to put on some weight on too but I already figured that into my number (somewhat).

If they get the weight down that low, it will be very nasty. My 2010 GT500 was just over 3,900Lbs if I remember correctly. I know I was surprised when I read the weight sticker on the door jam. I'm starting to wonder what I should do now. Damn ford and Chevy for making these choices so hard. I wish I was a fanboy for either ford or chevy then the decision wouldn't be so hard.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by coolman

If they get the weight down that low, it will be very nasty. My 2010 GT500 was just over 3,900Lbs if I remember correctly. I know I was surprised when I read the weight sticker on the door jam. I'm starting to wonder what I should do now. Damn ford and Chevy for making these choices so hard. I wish I was a fanboy for either ford or chevy then the decision wouldn't be so hard.

same here deciding between getting Boss or waiting for rumored z28

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

same here deciding between getting Boss or waiting for rumored z28

I know I said last night that I think I'm more a boss man over the GT500 but if they remove that much weight , improve the traction and add 60HP, I just might have to go back to one.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by coolman

I know I said last night that I think I'm more a boss man over the GT500 but if they remove that much weight , improve the traction and add 60HP, I just might have to go back to one.

Out of my price range

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Out of my price range

Not If you don't Mind waiting midway through the year or better yet the fall. They seem to be hard to buy for the first three or four months when a new year comes out and then dealers start getting stuck with them. They don't like to dealer trade them because then they lose allocation for the next year. You can get some really good deals on 2011s right now. I've seen some for less then I paid for my 2010 and that was a good deal. Times are though right now and not everyone has and extra 45 to 50 grand laying around.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by thePill

No, not yet. They probably will just skip to the 2012 GT500 as they are being delivered as we speak. It looks like the GT500's are gradually losing a few pounds between model years. The one IL used weighed 3808lbs, Big Dan said the C&D one weighed 3751lbs. I wonder if that was with a full tank or not.

The '12 GT500 vs '12 Boss should be similar but I am digging through all the forums tryin to see if the rumored 5.8 is a bored 5.4 or the stroked 5.0 for the 2013 GT500. It's pretty clear that the 5.4 cannot be bored out in fear of cylinder wall issues. It would render the indestructible bottom end useless if the cylinder walls were weak from boring. The 2012 could be the last 5.4, it will forever be sold though Ford Racing though...

A stroked 5.0 would reduce the curb weight as well as the Getrag transmission. If Ford is in a contract with Tremec, they might have to use a 6060 but that's unclear (Tremec is losing alot of business lately). I'm figuring another 60lbs off the front with the 5.0/Getrag combo. I know the deck height is taller, rods are longer and some assorted accessories will need some extra length so the 30lb difference from the 5.0 and the 5.4 might be a few pound to generous. I have to find the weights of the superchargers too, The TVS 2.3 is heavier than the 1.9 but I need to find out if there was a reduction in weight over the previous GT500 supercharger. I would love to see a 5.0 with a 4.0 Twin screw super-crusher...

The MT-82 comes from Getrag ready to handle the power, but would fair better with a dual mass flywheel and twin clutch so the 109lb transmission would be about 30lbs heavier.. but still 40lbs lighter than a DC TR6060.

I will sh!t myself if Ford can get this thing down to 3700lbs flat... This suspension upgrade should be a little lighter so I hear, but nothing major. There is also whispers that the 2013 Boss will get a slight refresh as the 1970 Boss did (Championship season), who the hell knows what is left for the Boss in 2013. Less weight, maybe a slight HP/TQ boost, Direct injection... who knows...

I also caught some conversation on GM Inside New from "someone in the know". Don't know how valuable this actually is but the forum members seem to worship him (name withheld)

They need to drop some weight, I just don't see where this can be done at... and in Motor Trend's ZL1 video, they say that the ZL1 will have chassis bracing (like I said) and revised suspension geometry .. That is going to put on some weight on too but I already figured that into my number (somewhat).

Edit: It looks like the Twin Vortices Series superchargers are on average 7lbs heavier (unit vs unit) than a Twin Screw... Everything else in the kit should be the same weight (or very close).

How is weight loss always a cake walk when talking about Ford, but an impossibility when it comes to GM? The more you post (and trust me- you have been posting A LOT lately) the more warped your rants become. When you first came here, you posted good information. Now it's like a cocaine induced Mustang spamming spree. I guess I'd like the old Pill back?

[thePill]

Originally Posted by coolman

If they get the weight down that low, it will be very nasty. My 2010 GT500 was just over 3,900Lbs if I remember correctly. I know I was surprised when I read the weight sticker on the door jam. I'm starting to wonder what I should do now. Damn ford and Chevy for making these choices so hard. I wish I was a fanboy for either ford or chevy then the decision wouldn't be so hard.

I personally am keeping my 2011 GT, Its what I always wanted and if I were to pursue the "best", It could cost me alot of money. What you buy now will be old school a year later (Pony Car Wars). If you are intending to buy, wait until all the offerings are on the table.

Although, the 2014 Mustang and 2016 Camaro will surely make all our cars look aged... nothing wrong with that.. you can always do a GenV engine swap into a Gen5 Camaro. That would be pretty cool.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

How is weight loss always a cake walk when talking about Ford, but an impossibility when it comes to GM? The more you post (and trust me- you have been posting A LOT lately) the more warped your rants become. When you first came here, you posted good information. Now it's like a cocaine induced Mustang spamming spree. I guess I'd like the old Pill back?

It will always be about weight, mass itself is the single most important variable that affects all aspects of performance and efficiency. It took Ford 6 years to shave 150lbs and a majority of that was an engine recast to aluminum. Its not impossible for GM to shave the weight, which is why I directly post on here so team Camaro can see it. It pushes Camaro fans to directly ask those questions in which GM could make changes to the current game plan. But alot of those sacrifices will not be made because of consumer demand for other luxuries.

There are bad decisions being made, like a power passenger seat and 20" wheels all around. GM is using the heaviest engine/transmission combo they have and it is possible for them to limit the gas tank size.

There was drastic weight saving measures done prior to the Camaro reaching the public which makes it hard to lose some pounds.. but not impossible.

I still post good information, but after months and months of posting the same information on here and the average Camaro fan pays no attention... Then I talk about other things... I liked to discuss everything automotive, it only seems warped because its either new information I bring back to this forum or it is information that people don't want to hear. I love to talk about how the new ZL1 can reach 4000lbs, I have done the math for months.. I had suggestions and those suggestions were shot down, so I look for new suggestions... simple and easy..