Road and Track: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - First Look

[Caliman93230]

I think the zl1 will perform similar to the ctsv coupe, maybe at tad better. however I still think you can get a better performing car if you go aftermarket and would cost you allot less, the only buying motive for this car is the warranty but if you beat on your car and drag race it or make some mods, you can say adios to the warranty besides the aftermarket guys most likely be faster for and have spent less.

[Z28RockStar]

Originally Posted by blufin

Good luck finding a dealer that will let you test drive one of these. Not gonna happen. BTW, what a complete 180* turn you've made on this car. For the longest time your posts were all about this car, now it seems the only good part in your opinion is the engine. Oh well, one less buyer to drive the price up.

1. If me or anyone puts 50 to 60K cash on the table, I dont care who the dealer is, few would refuse an individual with a clean license a drive.

2. My family is friends with a family that owns a couple distributers, I'm not worried.

3. My posts have always been about Z28s.

Originally Posted by Mark H

Quick question.
I'm just courious,
Would you have liked this car better if they would have named it Z/28?

YES. I admit the 60K out the door loaded would still be an issue for me though. I don't think It's worth that much. Though yes, I'd be a lot closer to "on board" for a ridiculously priced "Z28". True Story. OH and NO, I still would not like the front, the suede, or the rocker panels. ALTHOUGH proper nomenclature would have gone a lot farther in warming me up to overlooking those things, price quite possibly included.

I will be buying a Camaro, It just may turn out to be a first generation or a 2010 SS manual I slap a supercharger and suspension on, possibly even engine swap.

[AK's SS Camaro]

Im curious to everyones thoughts on what they think this ZL1 will do matched up against a professionaly tuned SS with about the same HP. Also i think they need to address the engine compartment and clean it up a bit. Just my opinion.

[alex33x]

Originally Posted by Z28RockStar

Ehh I didn't mean to offend anyone, those are just my feelings. I think the price point is too high for what they're offering. As previously stated, I will reserve final judgment until I drive one, however I will refrain from a preorder and down payment. If price point with dealer delivery and tax approaches 60K+ or more if loaded out, I'd rather pay that mount for a tuner car with a warranty and an engine swap with 800+HP and upgraded suspension / brakes / wheels. I'm sorry, I don't like the new fascia, the revised lower-body diffusers and rocker panels, or the suede inserts . . . and the hood is just OK. I do like the suspension upgrade and the mechanical advantages you've pointed out. I will just have to drive one to see if I am stunned. I do not think I will be for 60K. Just opinion and like I said, I will wait to render final judgment. Again bud, I do appreciate your enthusiasm, points of interest and insight, thank you man.

I really doubt the car will go up to 60k at least not MSRP. Maybe with mods like you mentioned before, but I dont think they will mark it above 55k MSRP.

My guess would be 48k-52k MSRP. 55k including tax and destination is my max budget for this car. So I hope It stays under 55k.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by OldJedi

Radz, I did not tell you sooner, but you did a great job not only detailing all of the technical advancements and equipment of the ZL1 but also putting together a great group of videos on the car. Thanks from all of us on a job well done !!

It was fun for me to go through all the videos and information. I think I went through each about six times and almost every time I found something new. I'm not confident all the statements they made were accurate, but I know what I reported is what they stated.

Thanks though If you guys find something new, please share so I can update the Sticky

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

I think the zl1 will perform similar to the ctsv coupe, maybe at tad better. however I still think you can get a better performing car if you go aftermarket and would cost you allot less, the only buying motive for this car is the warranty but if you beat on your car and drag race it or make some mods, you can say adios to the warranty besides the aftermarket guys most likely be faster for and have spent less.

I think with less weight, bigger tires, and what looks like a lower center of gravity, we'll have more than a tad bit better performance. Regardless - CTS-V performs outstanding. Only the Panamera runs better to my knowledge. Yes - you'll have a better performing car, but if you want to fortify the drivetrain to keep up with the increase in power in the aftermarket SS, you're probably going to be in for a sticker shock. Considering a complete rear end swap is about $7K (that's bulletproof though), you're going to double that with an SC and spend at least a few more grand on suspension and a couple more for wheels and tires. You still haven't done anything with brakes, cooling, and aerodynamics.

People seem quick to forget ZL1 is a PACKAGE...

Originally Posted by AK's SS Camaro

Im curious to everyones thoughts on what they think this ZL1 will do matched up against a professionaly tuned SS with about the same HP. Also i think they need to address the engine compartment and clean it up a bit. Just my opinion.

It depends on what you mean by tuned. I'm not going to re-type my post above, but that applies here. I think you're going to spend more money on getting SS at the same level and probably more if you want the same reliability.

Go look at the specs' again.

Originally Posted by alex33x

I really doubt the car will go up to 60k at least not MSRP. Maybe with mods like you mentioned before, but I dont think they will mark it above 55k MSRP.

My guess would be 48k-52k MSRP. 55k including tax and destination is my max budget for this car. So I hope It stays under 55k.

Ugh - I'm sure most of us can certainly agree on at least the last statement

[alex33x]

Originally Posted by radz28

I think with less weight, bigger tires, and what looks like a lower center of gravity, we'll have more than a tad bit better performance. Regardless - CTS-V performs outstanding. Only the Panamera runs better to my knowledge. Yes - you'll have a better performing car, but if you want to fortify the drivetrain to keep up with the increase in power in the aftermarket SS, you're probably going to be in for a sticker shock. Considering a complete rear end swap is about $7K (that's bulletproof though), you're going to double that with an SC and spend at least a few more grand on suspension and a couple more for wheels and tires. You still haven't done anything with brakes, cooling, and aerodynamics.

People seem quick to forget ZL1 is a PACKAGE...

Not to mention, that manufacturing reduces costs by a lot. Otherwise Corvette's would be in Ferrari or Lambo Price ranges.

It seems it's a huge factor people are forgetting, I've seena lot of people arguing about how much a blower costs, and mods etc. Which they add to the price of the car. But they are forgetting those costs are much less when manufactured.

[G8GT4now]

Originally Posted by radz28

I think with less weight, bigger tires, and what looks like a lower center of gravity, we'll have more than a tad bit better performance. Regardless - CTS-V performs outstanding. Only the Panamera runs better to my knowledge.

From a dig, yes the Panamera Turbo walks the V. AWD and lauch control help the Porsche ALOT.

However from a 30 mph rolling start it is a drivers race.

I expect the ZL1 to beat the CTS-V in a drag race.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by G8GT4now

From a dig, yes the Panamera Turbo walks the V. AWD and lauch control help the Porsche ALOT.

However from a 30 mph rolling start it is a drivers race.

I expect the ZL1 to beat the CTS-V in a drag race.

I should hope so, lol.

BTW - NICE RIDE!!! I just noticed

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

I also wouldn't mind losing a ZL1 badge or two.....

I agree...as they say, "less is more". Memo to GM: Remove all the ZL1 emblems from the inside, way overkill and redundant, keep four as seen on the outside for retro look (front & rear, both sides of hood) and keep the the wheel etchings for modern style. I digress.."signs, signs, everywhere a sign..., blocking out the scenery breaking my mind..." (5 Man Electrical Band/Hippie Music Lyrics)

[BoostedX2]

Dude, I am so ready for the Zl-1. I want GM to go all out, don't care about a gas guzzler tax IF the performance is fantatstic. Make it affordable (<55K MSRP) and I will have one. I expect sub 12 1/4 mile times. I am tired of moding my SS and want a car that performs from the factory!!!

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Mr T

Dude, I am so ready for the Zl-1. I want GM to go all out, don't care about a gas guzzler tax IF the performance is fantatstic. Make it affordable (<55K MSRP) and I will have one. I expect sub 12 1/4 mile times. I am tired of moding my SS and want a car that performs from the factory!!!

A MEN!!! I'm more concerned about the trap speeds. I'd like to see trap speeds of around 119-120. High 11's would be awsome with those trap speeds!

[2010SSRSM6]

Maybe after the SS is paid off I can swing another Camaro into the garage. The $55k price estimate seems a tick low for all that this car will come with. I'd bet it will be closer to $59k-$62k before additional mark-ups, tax, destination fees, etc. Looking at the price for a 4LT Corvette with SRC and dual mode exhaust puts the price up there without adding the price for the forged LSA or the TVS1900 and additional components that go along with that.

Hopefully it will come in lower, but I just don't see how. My almost fully loaded SS was $44k after tax, lic and dest. The ZL1 is going to be a huge step up from the SS in every aspect. That step up comes with a hefty price tag attached to it.

The base price on a 2012 GT 500, that is no where near the ZL1 in terms of technology is $49,495. Add the GT 500 performance package and upgraded Recaro seats and your already up to $55,085. This is an inferior product (technology wise) and the base GT already starts $2k less than the SS.

I just don't see the $55k price for the ZL1 working out. Maybe for the left over 2012's that are sitting on dealership lots when the 2013's roll in, but not right away for a new one.

[Vega]

Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Vega

Okay ive been biting my tongue for long enough lol, this has to come out...

So the new specs on the Boss Mustang are out and wow, was i ever wrong! (sarcasm...) So lets review where we are now. Ford has a new Mustang model that is lighter, faster, better handling, and cheaper than the GT500 and we have an upcoming model that is supposed to be a GT500-inspired Camaro that slightly outperforms the GT500. I think GM needs to change their catch phrase from "we dont compete, we win" to "we dont innovate, we follow"
Who was the guy sitting here saying "SCREW FORD! Who said we HAVE to have a competitior to the GT500? Who says is HAS to be supercharged? Who says we HAVE to keep all the heavy luxury stuff?" My idea of the Z28 (as called then) was a rodded out SS Camaro with a lot of luxury ripped out to save weight topped off by an updated LS7 or a factory-model LSX454. What would we have with that? We'd have a Boss-esque Camaro before the Boss was even announced that shares almost every aspect except it would have 60 more horsepower and 100 more torque. If i dont get hired at GM sometime soon im gonna have an annurism LOL.

In my honest oppinion i think Ford knows our weakness...the Corvette...they can push and push and push the Mustang and while we can turn our volume up to 10 they can always go to 11 because they know we will never create a Camaro that will out-perform our prized crown jewel.
I dont mean to sound like a naysay-er or anything or to offend anyone or to talk down GM or the Camaro, its more constructive criticism, but this frustrated me sitting here saying it again and again and again and everyone replying with "you dont make sense" and "that would never work", turns out i was ahead of Ford who was ahead of GM >_<

This may be un-related to what your saying but I remember one of the GM reps saying something like they don't have to limit the ZL1 in terms of it's performance to keep it in a certain spot, like under the vettes performance. Same with the 1969 ZL1, that out-performed the vette and at the time, was the fastest car Chevy ever produced