[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

The Media is going to cover up the limitations of electric vehicles. This EV thing will fail. Credit to Motortrend for taking a close look!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/f...GO2H2UCCfYi84E

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Personally I think the 2 toughest obstacles will be supply chains for all these raw materials and semiconductors and updating the power grid, which can't handle current load in many places. Then you also start to get into the fact the solar and wind have geographic limitations themselves. Nuclear could do it, but most the same people wanting EVs are completely against nuclear. So good luck.

These cars their producing now are the 486's of the computer world that I learned to type on in the 90's.

Piles of trash in a landfill in other words. EV's of the future will make these completely obsolete as they're inferior even now. The current path and plan will do nothing to improve the environment. I know you have to start somewhere, but current actions are about money and nothing else.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

The Media is going to cover up the limitations of electric vehicles. This EV thing will fail. Credit to Motortrend for taking a close look!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/f...GO2H2UCCfYi84E

Considering most pick ups are just grocery getters, doubt it will fail.

But certainly ICE still reign if you need to tow with todays technology.

As someone said above, stop using today as indicators for tomorrow. Just because EV's suck today for towing, does not mean they will in the future. The ICE vehicle saw challenges when they just started and look at the progress. Computers had issues and look at today. Look at planes and see where we are today. You would be the person back then ready to declare every one of them failures. People didn't trust jet aircraft back in the 50's because it lacked a propeller. Now today people don't trust a plane with propellers.

[digitalfutur]

EVs are the future. It won't happen overnight, but with increasing speed over the next 20-30 years.

The charge times, infrastructure and system load will get figured out. The engine "noise" will get figured out. EV taxation will get figured out? Why? Because it all got figured out with previous new technologies. Necessity (and profits) are the mothers of invention, starting with the elimination over time of the horse-drawn buggy. Just because you don't agree with politically or otherwise with the eventual demise of ICE does not mean that humans have suddenly returned to pre-industrial thinking, and current issues with EVs re unworkable and unsolvable. That's not the history of human innovation.

The market will determine when (not if) EVs displace ICE vehicles. Oh and BTW, we, as enthusiasts who post here, are not representative of the general vehicle-buying population, and so don't influence corporate decisions. The market does, with some push from government to level the playing field.

Don't like government transportation regulations? Think again, because they were the catalyst, along with computerization, for carmakers to develop the vehicles we enjoy today: Better crash survivability, handling, braking, specific power output, far better acceleration, and far lower emissions than even 30 years ago.

Are EVs an "appliance"? Pull the ECU/M out of your ICE car and see how well it runs. It's a difference of degree, not kind.

[mariojas]

EVs might not be that green overall but locally - no question. Some forgot that there is no pipe emmisions, meaning that city center will be much cleaner, no hell on the parking lot in the middle of summer with cars running with AC - adding more heat to air just by running. This is step in right direction.

New battery technologies are coming and guess what - we will just replace battery in a new car and we should multiply energy density. Towing sucks? No. Battery energy density sucks. EVs are so efficient that any added weight extremely impacts range. Gasoline is very dense, but the difference between normal driving and towing isn't that bad because normal driving isn't so efficient in the first place. Besides - towing impact fuel economy hugely too It's just that you have gas station every where to the point you don't need to plan ahead where/when to tank. And that it's just fluid pumping...
There are hydrogen batteries in the works which can improve energy density greatly. Not in the production for now...

But, of course, pushing 100% vehicles to be EV, at the point where batteries are just good enough for daily commute (does not cover all use cases) is purely dumb, stupid, idiotic... It's like first car ever invented and we ban horses...

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by mariojas

But, of course, pushing 100% vehicles to be EV, at the point where batteries are just good enough for daily commute (does not cover all use cases) is purely dumb, stupid, idiotic... It's like first car ever invented and we ban horses...

And to be clear, there are no bans in the US on the sale of ICE vehicles. Just stated goals or studies if feasible.

No bills passed and signed either at the state or federal level dictating no more ICE vehicle sales after such a date.

[cooldawg]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Considering most pick ups are just grocery getters, doubt it will fail.

But certainly ICE still reign if you need to tow with todays technology.

As someone said above, stop using today as indicators for tomorrow. Just because EV's suck today for towing, does not mean they will in the future. The ICE vehicle saw challenges when they just started and look at the progress. Computers had issues and look at today. Look at planes and see where we are today. You would be the person back then ready to declare every one of them failures. People didn't trust jet aircraft back in the 50's because it lacked a propeller. Now today people don't trust a plane with propellers.

Of course, anyone who resists this big push to EVs are now anti-progress, knuckle dragging, chuckleheads with regards to technology. Just ignore the potential issues with the grid, which we all depend on in some measure. You’re free to enjoy your Tesla 3 and the tax credits that came with it. You won. The EPA is on your side, obviously. Enjoy those tax credits as ICE proponents/ users are surely exposed to economic penalties of various forms in the near and distant future. The gas guzzler tax is more of a ‘luxury’ tax now, but the threshold will of course be lowered.

Just curious, do you tow anything? Do you own a boat? Would you be willing to admit that the likely reason Ford chose to produce and can market this ‘truck’ is a haste in the market born from government picking winners and losers? I know sales were lagging, but is a similar dynamic playing a role with GM punting the next generation Camaro?

Everyone wants progress; the underlying philosophical difference being is it a transition pushed in haste by centralized power like the EPA, or should it be based in the free market. The same argument can be made for domestic energy development.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by cooldawg

Of course, anyone who resists this big push to EVs are now anti-progress, knuckle dragging, chuckleheads with regards to technology. Just ignore the potential issues with the grid, which we all depend on in some measure. You’re free to enjoy your Tesla 3 and the tax credits that came with it. You won. The EPA is on your side, obviously. Enjoy those tax credits as ICE proponents/ users are surely exposed to economic penalties of various forms in the near and distant future. The gas guzzler tax is more of a ‘luxury tax’ now, but the threshold will of course be lowered.

Let me be clear, I am not ignoring the current issues that face EV's. But I am not going to come here and claim EV's will fail because of TODAY'S issues. The grid can be upgraded, though it seems like everyone enjoys arguing over it vs actually doing something about it. Charging stations can be added just like gas stations.

Also another point of clarification, I received NO TAX CREDITS when I bought my Model 3. Tesla long went past the 200,000 sales( just like GM did) resulting in losing the credits when I bought my 3 last year. I bought the 3 because I liked. Not because I wanted to be green or wanted my purchase to be subsidized. I liked how it drove and fit my lifestyle with foreseen uses of the car. If it did not, I would not own it. EV's are not practical for everyone today and I am not here to convince you they are. What I am sick of is trying to claim EV's won't get better and what is offered today is all that EV's are capable of. It's not that I am labeling them as anti-progress, but calling out their belief progress can't happen and the issues that face EV's today can't be solved in the next couple of decades as the transition occurs. Everyone is acting like ICE vehicles will be banned tomorrow. This will be a 2-3 decade transition.

Just curious, do you tow anything? Do you own a boat? Would you be willing to admit that the likely reason Ford chose to produce and market this ‘truck’ is a haste in the market born from government picking winners and losers? I know sales were lagging, but is a similar dynamic playing a role with GM punting the next generation Camaro?

My mom tows a horse trailer and they own a Suburban for that purpose.

My point being the F-150 lightning will be a great vehicle for a lot of people. The people who actually use trucks( and Suburban's for that matter) for towing is a small amount of people just like the people who take their Camaro's to the track are a small amount of the demographics of Camaro owners. A pickup truck has become a lifestyle vehicle then a vehicle being bought for the purpose of towing and hauling. Just like it's cool to own an iPhone or want to be seen in a BMW or whatever luxury vehicle. So an EV pick up fits that bill perfectly and will easily be able to haul groceries.

For those that need a truck for towing and hauling, an ICE powered vehicle is still the best vehicle and in no danger of going away in the next decade or two.

[mariojas]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

And to be clear, there are no bans in the US on the sale of ICE vehicles. Just stated goals or studies if feasible.

No bills passed and signed either at the state or federal level dictating no more ICE vehicle sales after such a date.

Well that's true. Push is seen nevertheless. Biden said he will kill fossil fuels, so. Europe did sign EV bill from what I heard already. But they are suffering with 1.2T engines from sometime already. EV will be a blessing there lol.

[Gen6cyl]

The people running the show now can't get anything right.

[redcoats1976]

truth,but they do manage to line their pockets.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

truth,but they do manage to line their pockets.

That's always their top priority. "Career" "politicians".

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

The Media is going to cover up the limitations of electric vehicles. This EV thing will fail. Credit to Motortrend for taking a close look!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/f...GO2H2UCCfYi84E

Only if you politicize the technology discussion. But hey it’s the internet and everything is now political.

Because motortrend “discovered” what everyone already knew doesn’t condemn EVs. In fact I’m sure there are a lot of business owners that would be quite happy to haul their work tools and trailers around and get that range.

Of course the gasoline truck range also tanked in similar tests. And this was at highway speeds where aero is 50% of FE and range.

Simply go look at the articles for class 8 trucks going electric. Yes the same ones that tow 10s of thousands of pounds.

So for me it’s not clea4 what you give mother trend credit other than writ8n* an article that was known.

[Gen6cyl]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

That's always their top priority. "Career" "politicians".

They will sell out their country to line their pockets.Are you as well off as you were 3 years ago? I know the world is not.Their green BS has been a disaster.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

That's always their top priority. "Career" "politicians".

They all try to benefit from their positions.