[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by PhotoGuy

Camaro may be going out with a Bang in 2024

And now we’re back full circle. At least that means we’re on topic.

[samurai]

Originally Posted by RealG

Rumor says 2023 camaro gets LT2 with hp bump.

Not rumors, just Lethal Camaro. Every big magazines reported that their sources highly question these rumors and are reporting a final appearance package with some stripes and yellow paint color (I guess a Bumblebeee lookalike).

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by genxer

They passed on a shot making an S2000 type car for Cadillac with alpha, that would be a tougher play with EV weight.

Maybe then, GM looks weak for not going straight for hype buying EV early adopters with Corvette as a brand? They still could push those chips in a basket with the Caddy EVs.

And stop the pretense that the muscle crowd will welcome replacement (even though the old small blocks weren't considered muscle back then, I digress).

A Taycan fighter would have to be a Corvette. It wouldn't have to spoil the Stingray. A much sportier Model 3 fighter isn't a Camaro, or a Chevelle, but could be under the Vette flags as something else.

Where is Petrol Head on this forum when he's needed?

or they could leave the corvette as is and just wrap some 2 door sheetmetal around a regular EV,sporty up the handling and have an emaro...sad thing is my little 6 shooter camaro would leave many of the old muscle cars from the 60s in the dust,just due to improvements in tire and transmission technology.it aint gonna be pretty when moms SUV can give the new vette a good race.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by samurai

Not rumors, just Lethal Camaro. Every big magazines reported that their sources highly question these rumors and are reporting a final appearance package with some stripes and yellow paint color (I guess a Bumblebeee lookalike).

Similar to the CETA ws6 too

[genxer]

Was alpha's origin not from an unrealized Kappa2? Anyone that wants to clear that up, please chime in. But realize, I'm writing of hypotheticals. I'm clearly no insider.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by samurai

Not rumors, just Lethal Camaro. Every big magazines reported that their sources highly question these rumors and are reporting a final appearance package with some stripes and yellow paint color (I guess a Bumblebeee lookalike).

Yeah, that's the problem.... it's only Lethal Camaro. If there was just another independent source then it would be much more believable. Although, i have to admit, i kind of do think it's a decent possibility. Either way, I like his channel, his videos on removing the bumpers really helped my with my vinyl wrap project!

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I’m chuckling because you both are agreeing that Porsche’s EV outsold the 911. And they are building as many 911s as they ca according to you both and their EV sold even more.



Point was not 911 being constrained but how a many Eavs they sold and was apparently quite a few.

*Insert "playing chess with pigeon" meme here*

Well, it may be a fact, but it's a misleading and useless fact. Like I said, it's pretty much the same idea as saying Camry sold more than 488. I certainly believe Ferrari is also building as many 488s as they can and Camry still sold more.

And again, you are comparing a 4-door sedan to a 2-door sports car. No sh*t the 4-door sold more. At least compare Taycan to Panamera, as they are much closer in body style.

Context is very important here. IMO something like Tesla Model 3 and BMW 3 Series sales comparison would be much more fair. I believe Model 3 did/does beat 3 Series, which is a much better example if you are pro-EV.

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

The people spelling doom and gloom about EV's losing their driving soul are going off of nothing but misguided emotion.



Just check out these guys. They look awesome! https://www.alphamotorinc.com/

Emotion is the whole point of buying a fun car, though.

If we don't use emotions when buying a car, we all would be driving a Corolla or Prius, or a bare bone truck.

As I mentioned before, it's the same thing as trying to tell the retro gaming crowd how great the latest Call of Duty looks graphically and telling the vinyl record folks how much more convenient a smartphone is at playing songs. Yes, the newer tech may be objectively better but it just doesn't stir your soul the same way.

Also, why go fishing when you can just buy the same fish in a market?

And again, I don't get why hybrid just suddenly isn't an option for a lot of manufacturers. It's a good intermediate stage until batteries aren't utter garbage in terms of energy density.

P.S. regarding comparing horses to cars... You know, people still ride horses for fun, right? That's a thing. And horse carriages are also tourist attractions in some places.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

*Insert "playing chess with pigeon" meme here*

Well, it may be a fact, but it's a misleading and useless fact. Like I said, it's pretty much the same idea as saying Camry sold more than 488. I certainly believe Ferrari is also building as many 488s as they can and Camry still sold more.

And again, you are comparing a 4-door sedan to a 2-door sports car. No sh*t the 4-door sold more. At least compare Taycan to Panamera, as they are much closer in body style.

Context is very important here. IMO something like Tesla Model 3 and BMW 3 Series sales comparison would be much more fair. I believe Model 3 did/does beat 3 Series, which is a much better example if you are pro-EV.Emotion is the whole point of buying a fun car, though.

If we don't use emotions when buying a car, we all would be driving a Corolla or Prius, or a bare bone truck.

As I mentioned before, it's the same thing as trying to tell the retro gaming crowd how great the latest Call of Duty looks graphically and telling the vinyl record folks how much more convenient a smartphone is at playing songs. Yes, the newer tech may be objectively better but it just doesn't stir your soul the same way.

Also, why go fishing when you can just buy the same fish in a market?

And again, I don't get why hybrid just suddenly isn't an option for a lot of manufacturers. It's a good intermediate stage until batteries aren't utter garbage in terms of energy density.

P.S. regarding comparing horses to cars... You know, people still ride horses for fun, right? That's a thing. And horse carriages are also tourist attractions in some places.

Well you completely missed my point but that’s ok. If you have good thoughts about an EV you couldn’t let yourself get my point but I get that and it’s ok.

Yep, people ride horses for fun and in some communities the have horse drawn carriages. But in this case I’m missing your point. Porsche is developing net zero gasoline to ensure buyers of their horses errr cars will be able to enjoy track days well into the future. It’s $30 per gallon. The wealthy (just like owning a horse unless you own a farm) will enjoy driving their ICEs for many years to come. And fishing, another hobby reference also reminds that in the future people still be able to take the extra effort to drive ICEs.

Regardless of the Eav discussion, this thread is about Camaro rumors, and sadly there are none. Why? The market for expressive sporty coupes (Camaro and Mustang) is dying as we discuss this. The segment is withering away to simply a bad business case. If not for Cadillac, the Camaro would likely be gone now. Hopefully as long as the CT4/5 stay in production as ICEs we can enjoy the thought of the Camaro being on the road. I say the thought of because I likely won’t own one at least until retirement. I hope we have an ICE Camaro for at least 3 or 4 more years. It just won’t be an ICE Gen7.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

Was alpha's origin not from an unrealized Kappa2? Anyone that wants to clear that up, please chime in. But realize, I'm writing of hypotheticals. I'm clearly no insider.

No, Alpha has nothing to do with a Kappa2. Sigma was a dedicated Cadillac exclusive platform. Alpha replaced Sigma in the portfolio. Camaro is the only non-Cadillac program on Alpha.

Kappa2 was exactly that, a next gen, improved Kappa. For anyone not aware, Kappa was the platform for Pontiac Solstice / Saturn Sky. What happened to Kappa? Ask your local Pontiac or Saturn dealer….oh, wait…

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well you completely missed my point but that’s ok. If you have good thoughts about an EV you couldn’t let yourself get my point but I get that and it’s ok.



Yep, people ride horses for fun and in some communities the have horse drawn carriages. But in this case I’m missing your point. Porsche is developing net zero gasoline to ensure buyers of their horses errr cars will be able to enjoy track days well into the future. It’s $30 per gallon. The wealthy (just like owning a horse unless you own a farm) will enjoy driving their ICEs for many years to come. And fishing, another hobby reference also reminds that in the future people still be able to take the extra effort to drive ICEs.

I am just pointing out that how your comparison isn't very useful or good. It's like pointing at a Camaro and saying it's a Camaro. Yes, it's a fact, I can't argue against that, but okay, how is that information useful to me when explicitly pointed out without any context or info.

I see your point is "future is here", and I have said that there are much better apple to apple comparisons you can make, like Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 3 Series and Taycan vs. Panamera. Taycan and 911 are just completely different animals with totally different appeals, so comparing their sales is useless, just like comparing Camry sales to 488 sales.

(Unless you are Kia and you are comparing a Forte to an Aventador. I still really like that as and think it's pretty funny.)

One thing I also didn't point out: look at how many options and trims 911 have, from the base Carrera to Turbo S, and then look at Taycan. It's just Turbo or Turbo S, so it's a lot more streamlined when it comes to mass production, while 911 has a lot more customizations and combinations that cannot be constructed as quickly. Talk when Taycan has as many trims and options as 911.

And yes, it could get expensive and perhaps impractical, but my point is that you can't define fun for another person. Some people think EV is fun, some people think automatic ICE is fun, some people like driving a stick. We are all built differently. It's not constructive to call someone a luddite because they like something that's more old-school. Respect that not everyone is on the EV hype train, and for some objectively good reasons. EVs have their use cases, but they are not a magic elixir that will just fix everything.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Porsche is developing net zero gasoline to ensure buyers of their horses errr cars will be able to enjoy track days well into the future. It’s $30 per gallon.

From what i've read of the Porsche efuel program, the $30 per gallon is the price in the pilot phase of the project. When mass production begins in 2026-2027 it is predicted to be $2/liter which is ~$7.50/gallon.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Hops

From what i've read of the Porsche efuel program, the $30 per gallon is the price in the pilot phase of the project. When mass production begins in 2026-2027 it is predicted to be $2/liter which is ~$7.50/gallon.

Well that’s what they pay in Europe today but including taxes. So instead of losing money with EV credits of $14,500 per car, maybe this has a shot if you give up the taxes.

[ItsChristianInHD]

S650 Mustang was seen testing today.

[The_DarkKnight]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I’m chuckling because you both are agreeing that Porsche’s EV outsold the 911. And they are building as many 911s as they ca according to you both and their EV sold even more.

Point was not 911 being constrained but how a many Eavs they sold and was apparently quite a few.

I didnt look up numbers, but I believe you, the new factory has more capacity. I suspect more automation too.
Macan, Cayenne and Panamera are built in the Leipzig factory, I believe the Panamera and Cayenne have a lot of subassemblies built in Eastern Europe and assembled in Germany

Taycan is very expensive, but many are adopting it, its apparently a great car, even if its shitty electric