None Ethanol gas

[Paladinjc]

I have read several articles about the benefits of using none ethanol gas. Gas with 10% or more ethanol is harder on the engine, injectors, etc.


Here in NC there are several station that offer none ethanol gas for sale. The gas is only 91 octane not 93 as recommend by the owner’s manual. After doing some research it appears all none ethanol gas is only 91 octane. I was wondering if any of you have experience in using none ethanol gas and will it hurt my cars performance using gas 2 octane below what is recommended?


On a side note, the guy who owns the gas station closest to me that sells none Ethanol gas owns a beautiful 2014 Blue GT500. He swears by none ethanol gas and is insisting not only is it much better for my car bit it will increase performance even with the loss of 2 octane.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Paladinjc

I have read several articles about the benefits of using none ethanol gas. Gas with 10% or more ethanol is harder on the engine, injectors, etc.


Here in NC there are several station that offer none ethanol gas for sale. The gas is only 91 octane not 93 as recommend by the owner’s manual. After doing some research it appears all none ethanol gas is only 91 octane. I was wondering if any of you have experience in using none ethanol gas and will it hurt my cars performance using gas 2 octane below what is recommended?


On a side note, the guy who owns the gas station closest to me that sells none Ethanol gas owns a beautiful 2014 Blue GT500. He swears by none ethanol gas and is insisting not only is it much better for my car bit it will increase performance even with the loss of 2 octane.

by coincidence, I was researching this last night too. I've read octane is octane so 93 is better but I really don't know.

[DrkPhx]

You'll be fine. I've run it before with no problems.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

You'll be fine. I've run it before with no problems.

Question is what makes more power. Both are available. 91 w/o ethanol or 93 with ethanol.

I was leaning toward the 93 but would really like to hear from so so e who has tested both on a dyno

[Paladinjc]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Question is what makes more power. Both are available. 91 w/o ethanol or 93 with ethanol.

I was leaning toward the 93 but would really like to hear from so so e who has tested both on a dyno

Agreed, I would love to know if any had dynoed this.

[DrkPhx]

The reason GM recommends 93 octane for "best performance" is because these cars run pretty high timing at WOT. I haven't dyno'd between the two (don't think it would be worth it imo), but I have datalogged extensively between the two and I always saw full timing at WOT with 91 clear same as 93. The car will also run richer with the clear and even get a little better mpg.

[jessrayo]

Octane is basically a standardized reading of how much compression a fuel can take before it spontaneously combusts like diesel fuel. In a gasoline engine this is called knock and it is bad. The cars today run a lot more compression on average because the computers will automatically retard timing to reduce the chance of knock. If your car knock sensor is retarding timing you are losing some possible power. Unless you have some special equipment, you have no way in a stock car to tell if the car is retarding the timing to prevent knock. It happens a lot more than most people realize.

Ethanol has interesting properties. It can be compressed a lot more than gasoline without detonation. Early drag racing cars used to run pure ethanol because they could run crazy compression ratios if they could get the fuel into the motor. It inherently is "high octane" but when fuel burns there is a certain amount of heat that can be released from the fuel. The BTU is the standard unit and the more heat the fuel can make the more power. Pure gasoline is somewhere around 114,000 btu/gal while pure ethanol is about 76,000 btu's per gallon. You only get about 2/3 of the power per gallon with the ethanol. So fuels like e85 that are 85% gas and 15% ethanol are blended to prevent detonation like a high octane but don't make as much heat/energy when burned as pure gas. So if your car is pulling timing you could probably do better with some ethanol but if it is not you will get more power and better mpg with pure gas.

[WSSICK]

My 2014 Camaro users manual states to use 91 octane or higher for LSA and LS7 engines. There is nothing specifically stating a suggested use of 93 octane. Is there a newer or revised 2014 edition of the users manual that states 93 octane?

[RobertRS]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Octane is basically a standardized reading of how much compression a fuel can take before it spontaneously combusts like diesel fuel. In a gasoline engine this is called knock and it is bad. The cars today run a lot more compression on average because the computers will automatically retard timing to reduce the chance of knock. If your car knock sensor is retarding timing you are losing some possible power. Unless you have some special equipment, you have no way in a stock car to tell if the car is retarding the timing to prevent knock. It happens a lot more than most people realize.

Ethanol has interesting properties. It can be compressed a lot more than gasoline without detonation. Early drag racing cars used to run pure ethanol because they could run crazy compression ratios if they could get the fuel into the motor. It inherently is "high octane" but when fuel burns there is a certain amount of heat that can be released from the fuel. The BTU is the standard unit and the more heat the fuel can make the more power. Pure gasoline is somewhere around 114,000 btu/gal while pure ethanol is about 76,000 btu's per gallon. You only get about 2/3 of the power per gallon with the ethanol. So fuels like e85 that are 85% gas and 15% ethanol are blended to prevent detonation like a high octane but don't make as much heat/energy when burned as pure gas. So if your car is pulling timing you could probably do better with some ethanol but if it is not you will get more power and better mpg with pure gas.

Mostly true except for the percentage ratio of E85. It's 85% ethanol and 15 % dino gasoline.

[RobertRS]

Originally Posted by WSSICK

My 2014 Camaro users manual states to use 91 octane or higher for LSA and LS7 engines. There is nothing specifically stating a suggested use of 93 octane. Is there a newer or revised 2014 edition of the users manual that states 93 octane?

I don't have a ZL1 manual.............yet.......but that said ,there are many areas where only 91 octane is available in ethanol blend.

[WSSICK]

I live in one of those areas. 83, 87, and 91 all ethanol blend, no non-ethanol blend available. E85 is available as well. Once in a blue moon we will see 92 octane during the hot summer months. 100 octane at a premium price ~$6.00 a gallon is also available.

[RobertRS]

Originally Posted by WSSICK

I live in one of those areas. 83, 87, and 91 all ethanol blend no non-ethanol blend available. E85 is available as well. Once in a blue moon we will see 92 octane during the hot summer months. 100 octane at a premium price ~$6.00 a gallon is also available.

Yea ,there used to be all three grades available down here in non ethanol variety but only 87 as of one year ago. I use the 87 though in my 96' model two stroke outboard,my lawn equipment, and a 92' FZR Yamaha.. They don't like ethanol gas.

[ZO6 Bryan]

Originally Posted by Paladinjc

I have read several articles about the benefits of using none ethanol gas. Gas with 10% or more ethanol is harder on the engine, injectors, etc.


Here in NC there are several station that offer none ethanol gas for sale. The gas is only 91 octane not 93 as recommend by the owner’s manual. After doing some research it appears all none ethanol gas is only 91 octane. I was wondering if any of you have experience in using none ethanol gas and will it hurt my cars performance using gas 2 octane below what is recommended?


On a side note, the guy who owns the gas station closest to me that sells none Ethanol gas owns a beautiful 2014 Blue GT500. He swears by none ethanol gas and is insisting not only is it much better for my car bit it will increase performance even with the loss of 2 octane.

There are plenty that carry 93 octane pure gas. Go check out http://pure-gas.org/

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Octane is basically a standardized reading of how much compression a fuel can take before it spontaneously combusts like diesel fuel. In a gasoline engine this is called knock and it is bad. The cars today run a lot more compression on average because the computers will automatically retard timing to reduce the chance of knock. If your car knock sensor is retarding timing you are losing some possible power. Unless you have some special equipment, you have no way in a stock car to tell if the car is retarding the timing to prevent knock. It happens a lot more than most people realize.

Ethanol has interesting properties. It can be compressed a lot more than gasoline without detonation. Early drag racing cars used to run pure ethanol because they could run crazy compression ratios if they could get the fuel into the motor. It inherently is "high octane" but when fuel burns there is a certain amount of heat that can be released from the fuel. The BTU is the standard unit and the more heat the fuel can make the more power. Pure gasoline is somewhere around 114,000 btu/gal while pure ethanol is about 76,000 btu's per gallon. You only get about 2/3 of the power per gallon with the ethanol. So fuels like e85 that are 85% gas and 15% ethanol are blended to prevent detonation like a high octane but don't make as much heat/energy when burned as pure gas. So if your car is pulling timing you could probably do better with some ethanol but if it is not you will get more power and better mpg with pure gas.

So the 93 with 10% ethanol has a blended specific heat value of 110,000 BTU/ gal and will allow full timing. ((114000*9)+74000)/10 = 110000

I'm going to use the blended 93