[KMPrenger]

My thoughts:

1) The styling (although subject, and not everyone loves it) is good overall. I get plenty of compliments on my car, and frankily, I love the way these cars look. I think the rear end is the only weak link, but its not like its horrible either. Its just not as great as the rest in my opinion. Neutral outcome.

2) But the style did not change a lot from the 5th gen, making casual observers just think its an updated 5th gen Camaro...if they even notice at all. Negative outcome.

3) Where is the advertising for this car????? If you aren't reading car mags or websites, you've completely missed this car. Negative outcome.

4) Performance and driving dyamics are undeniably the best of the crop. Positive outcome.

5) Price. Not much to say...it shot up. Now I think when you look at what these cars do from a performance metric, the price is completely worth it. But if you are just someone that wants a fun V8 pony car....well then...it gets tough. If you aren't shopping at a time when there's plenty of discounts to be found the price is a bit offputting. But then again folks, with the fairly significant updates to Mustang for next year, that car is going to be just as expensive....at least when you equip it in such as way to make it's performance equal the Camaro in handling and acceleration. But its base GT will still be noticeably less. Negative outcome.

6) Interior space - It needs to be said that nobody expects much space in any of these types of cars. But when your the worst...your the worst. Negative outcome.


Lots of negatives up there. But I freaking love this car. It is exactly what I wanted my 5th gen to be. It might have *slightly* less space, and sure I spent a couple grand more on my 1SS than I would have on a Mustang (b/c come on...no way I'd have gotten just a base GT) but I love the look, I love the interior, and I love the performance.

On a side note...although price is up....so is performance. We may complain a SS costs so much, but damn, a 2016 Camaro rapes the performance/handling/efficiency of V8 muscle from just 5 years before it or less. Today's V6 is more in line with performance of 10 - 15 year old V8 pony cars, and so if you look at the performance/cost metric from those cars, the cost isn't really too terrible at all. But so many folks still have the go big or go home mindset. That means you gonna pay for that big performance.

[TimeHater24]

Another reason for slow sales to the other 2, could be because people but them for different reasons than performance data. The Challenger is more of a pure muscle car feel, so for someone looking for a nostalgic muscle car, the challenger fits that build. The Mustang on the other hand is more alike to the Camaro, but it has more of a heritage to it. So again the buyer who is not just looking at the tech specs, might just buy a mustang, because they have always wanted a mustang

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Bassment

No It's not, the Camaro is in the top 10 (available production) cars for the slowest depreciation.

With continued 20% discounts to clear dealer lots, the Camaro is going to depreciate like a rat mobster wearing concrete boots in the bay.

Originally Posted by 2016SS

Trucks & compacts sell Camaro is not a main money making car. Never was never will be.

When the Camaro stops making GM money, it will cease to exist. It may not be one of their mainstream moneymakers, but it is NOT a publicity vehicle .

Originally Posted by gdgraph

Mustangs sell well because they are very affordable, but it's not a fair metric because the Camaro costs a little more but performs much better IMO. The V6 w/ 1LE can beat a V8 Mustang on certain tracks... Head to Head even proved that the SS has almost identical performance to an M4.

Point being Camaro costs more but you get more, not everyone knows that, they just see the price tag and go with the cheaper option, because lets be honest majority of consumers are not taking their car to the track, all they care about is 0-60 times.

In all honesty, we have reached a point in performance where people really don’t even care about 0-60 times anymore. How long do you reaaaaaly need to spin the tires for on the street before the po-po throw you in jail. The current mustang has shown that performance is not the end all.

Originally Posted by Thor142

It's too expensive. I'm going to buy one anyway but I have the disposable income. This is supposed to be the working mans car. It's now in the old retired wealthy bald guy price bracket. (That was just a fun poke at Corvette no butt hurt intended)
People call it a parts bin car like that some sort of bad thing. It's a great thing. Price it like one.

It is too expensive. If it’s going to be a daily driver, it loses out to practicality and price. When you are looking at weekend warriors, many that purchased the previous Gens are more than happy with them. GM needs to pull in owners that are driving other makes and models, and they don’t seem to be doing a particularly good job at it.

[maraging]

Originally Posted by Bassment

No It's not, the Camaro is in the top 10 (available production) cars for the slowest depreciation.

Id like a link to that. I cant find it anywhere.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by maraging

Id like a link to that. I cant find it anywhere.

I've looked all over the web and the Camaro is NOT listed on any list as one of the top 10 cars for retaining value or any list of the slowest depreciating cars.

Then again, neither are the Mustang or Challenger. At least not on the several lists I saw.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

In all honesty, we have reached a point in performance where people really don’t even care about 0-60 times anymore. How long do you reaaaaaly need to spin the tires for on the street before the po-po throw you in jail. The current mustang has shown that performance is not the end all.
.

I agree, same as the 5th gen Camaro outsold the faster 2011 - 2014 Mustang.

[KMPrenger]

A random thought...

If the 7th gen ends up on the Omega platform...say a shorter version of it than what underpins the Cadillac CT6 (if that is feasible due to cost, or design...or whatever) it could certainly grow just a tad in size and/or gain interior space and not gain weight. Hell, it could even lose weight. A base Cadillac CT6 weighs only 3,650 lbs...thats a full size car.

Shorten it up, and pull out some the the Cadillac "fancy" stuff lol....seems easy enough to see another base Camaro starting in the 3,300 lb range for the 7th gen, even if it gained an inch or two in interior space.

Maybe I'm dreaming.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

people talk about pracitcality and the backseat, but when i see camaro's , mustang's and challenger's i either see one person driving or with one passenger. i almost never see anyone in the backseat.

Yeah but think about how many cars you see with just one passenger or just the driver. How many times do you see someone in a crew cab pick up or SUV and its just the driver?

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

A random thought...

If the 7th gen ends up on the Omega platform...say a shorter version of it than what underpins the Cadillac CT6 (if that is feasible due to cost, or design...or whatever) it could certainly grow just a tad in size and/or gain interior space and not gain weight. Hell, it could even lose weight. A base CT6 weighs only 3,650 lbs...thats a full size car.

Shorten it up, and pull out some the the Cadillac "fancy" stuff lol....seems easy enough to see another base Camaro starting in the 3,300 lb range for the 7th gen, even if it gained an inch or two in interior space.

Maybe I'm dreaming.

Isn't Omega a very expensive platform though? Isn't that how the CT6 is so light?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

When the Camaro stops making GM money, it will cease to exist. It may not be one of their mainstream moneymakers, but it is NOT a publicity vehicle .

And that's the real question. No one knows the return is on them. But the fact there are really no public comments/speculation on sales from GM is the last 6 months is telling. Compared to the Challenger which seems to have some article talking about the glut of them sitting on lots and possible cancellation before next gen every month. Either GM is making enough money and doesn't want to show they have a large profit margin on the car, or they are struggling to find ways to move the car. With the ZL1 1LE launch, I'm inclined to believe they are making money still and aren't worried yet.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah but think about how many cars you see with just one passenger or just the driver. How many times do you see someone in a crew cab pick up or SUV and its just the driver?



Isn't Omega a very expensive platform though? Isn't that how the CT6 is so light?

So you are saying people buy cars that they don't really need?!? Here I thought everyone had 5 kids and worked on a farm since they all have large SUVs and trucks

[hotlap]

ATS and CTS needs the Camaro volume for the Alpha plant. GM announced a $211 million investment in Lansing Grand River for tooling and body shop expansion. They also announced the next CTS/ATS will arrive model year 2019. I think they'll take another shot at it.


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...-car/93540444/

[SpeedIsLife]

If I were GM I'd be super careful going forward with using Caddy underpinnings. Sure they could be light, but if the expense on them is even higher than Alpha..you're going to see a continuing trend of lighter Camaros that are more expensive as they use more and more Cadillac DNA.

GM,which I'm sure they are, needs to keep in mind which segment this car is in and what price point they should keep it at.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

If I were GM I'd be super careful going forward with using Caddy underpinnings. Sure they could be light, but if the expense on them is even higher than Alpha..you're going to see a continuing trend of lighter Camaros that are more expensive as they use more and more Cadillac DNA.

GM,which I'm sure they are, needs to keep in mind which segment this car is in and what price point they should keep it at.

That focus on lightness is across all manufacturers right now b/c of things like CAFE. If CAFE gets overhauled like the speculation says....there won't be as much dire need to reduce weight which will be good for these cars in many ways.

The Mustang has bought itself some time with the 10 spd to meet CAFE targets. But if CAFE continues as is, the Mustang is going to have to get lighter too and it's cost will go up. This is why the Challenger as we know it is definitely not going to make it to next gen, if at all.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

That focus on lightness is across all manufacturers right now b/c of things like CAFE. If CAFE gets overhauled like the speculation says....there won't be as much dire need to reduce weight which will be good for these cars in many ways.

The Mustang has bought itself some time with the 10 spd to meet CAFE targets. But if CAFE continues as is, the Mustang is going to have to get lighter too and it's cost will go up. This is why the Challenger as we know it is definitely not going to make it to next gen, if at all.

I think it's safe to assume the Challenger as we know it will be gone by 2020.

*IF* FCA survives long enough it's safe to assume that the Challenger/Charger will transition to the Guilia platform and see the 5.7 Hemi retire and a TTV6 take its place.