Carbon Ceramics a Necessity? - Page 2

MrChrisLS3 · 04-06-2016, 01:01 PM

From what I understand about CC brakes, along with the performance characteristics already mentioned, the rotors last forever, as in don't wear, at least not nearly as fast as steel, nor warp like steel tends to do, especially after many severe heat cycles. Also pads last longer as well. at least this is what I have come to understand.

If the above is true, and you track the car frequently, I could see where CC brakes is one of those "extras" that pays for itself in the long run in terms of maintenance.

Maybe some of you with first hand experience can confirm or correct?

mkorgan · 04-06-2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

Feel free to have a search on Rennlist, Fchat, etc. You'll see it isn't uncommon at all.

Well, like I said, they may be out there but my personal experience as well as the experience of those that I "play cars with" (as my wife would say) is that CC are the only way to go for a track car. I will say this, if the car is used as a DD or weekend cruiser and makes occasional trips to the track, I would not suggest CC. Here is a great article on the subject of CC vs. conventional brakes. Note the following line from the article, "Carbon ceramic brakes do have its flaws, but those flaws only show itself during everyday driving."

Full article here: http://therealcarsreviews.blogspot.c...ventional.html

Memphis · 04-06-2016, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkorgan

Well, like I said, they may be out there but my personal experience as well as the experience of those that I "play cars with" (as my wife would say) is that CC are the only way to go for a track car.

They have their advantages for sure but the question is if they are a necessity and the answer is no. A brake setup utilizing steel rotors can get the job done (very well at that), hell most race cars run steel rotors still. The C7R and Z28r are examples of race cars in the GM family that run steel rotors.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-06-2016, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

They have their advantages for sure but the question is if they are a necessity and the answer is no. A brake setup utilizing steel rotors can get the job done (very well at that), hell most race cars run steel rotors still. The C7R and Z28r are examples of race cars in the GM family that run steel rotors.

That's true. I believe Carbon Ceramic rotors are "illegal" features in most circuits, just like MagRide, etc.

mkorgan · 04-07-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

That's true. I believe Carbon Ceramic rotors are "illegal" features in most circuits, just like MagRide, etc.

I can't believe this is even a discussion but I will close my comments on this with there are a lot of things that you can put on your car that are not allowed in a sanctioned race. Just because something is not allowed does not mean it is inferior to what is allowed. That is why pre and post race inspections are implemented.

CC are superior for the track in just about every way, there is simply no denying it. Is it needed to track your car? No. Is it required to track your car? No. Is it allowed in all sanctioned events? No. Is it superior to steel rotors? Yes.

2cnd chance · 04-07-2016, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I can't believe this is even a discussion but I will close my comments on this with there are a lot of things that you can put on your car that are not allowed in a sanctioned race. Just because something is not allowed does not mean it is inferior to what is allowed. That is why pre and post race inspections are implemented.

CC are superior for the track in just about every way, there is simply no denying it. Is it needed to track your car? No. Is it required to track your car? No. Is it allowed in all sanctioned events? No. Is it superior to steel rotors? Yes.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 04-07-2016, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkorgan

I can't believe this is even a discussion but I will close my comments on this with there are a lot of things that you can put on your car that are not allowed in a sanctioned race. Just because something is not allowed does not mean it is inferior to what is allowed. That is why pre and post race inspections are implemented.

CC are superior for the track in just about every way, there is simply no denying it. Is it needed to track your car? No. Is it required to track your car? No. Is it allowed in all sanctioned events? No. Is it superior to steel rotors? Yes.

As far as I know...my comment, nor the comment I quoted was a question of superiority over steel...

mkorgan · 04-08-2016, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

As far as I know...my comment, nor the comment I quoted was a question of superiority over steel...

True, you did not. My apologies.

GrimReaperSS · 04-13-2016, 08:17 PM

I personally don't see them as a nessecity. I look at the heavier CTS-V and now the ZL1 with their giant steel rotors that can handle the track duties. Put the capapbilities of those brakes on a lighter vehicle, no problem! The Turbo 4 press drive of the ZL1's should account for this. They claimed they pounder those cars for 2+ hours straight! I don't remember reading anything on writers commenting or even questioning the brakes, it was all about whether or not the cooling system could handle the track. As stated above as well, the cars competing in the Continental Challenge have to install steels for their racing rules and they are up to the challenge. In fact, the optional Brembo 6 piston/larger rotor up grade for the SS reminds me of the AP racing calipers/steel rotors used on those cars. Now, next question, do I want them? Yeah, they are definitely bad ass and perform to a higher level. I just don't think they are essential to the performance of the vehicle. As long as they can perform for a track day (25-45 min sessions) w/o fade and have excellent capabilities, I'll take steels or CC's.

GrimReaperSS · 04-13-2016, 08:22 PM

Would be interesting to see if they decide to stick the carbon fiber elsewhere in the vehicle. It's been used in the roof and hood of the Vette for some time now, why not trickle down to the Camaro? Maybe even a trunk lid as well if they want to get the weight down and the center of gravity lower. Sorry, a bit skew of true topic.

2cnd chance · 04-13-2016, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

I personally don't see them as a nessecity. I look at the heavier CTS-V and now the ZL1 with their giant steel rotors that can handle the track duties. Put the capapbilities of those brakes on a lighter vehicle, no problem! The Turbo 4 press drive of the ZL1's should account for this. They claimed they pounder those cars for 2+ hours straight! I don't remember reading anything on writers commenting or even questioning the brakes, it was all about whether or not the cooling system could handle the track. As stated above as well, the cars competing in the Continental Challenge have to install steels for their racing rules and they are up to the challenge. In fact, the optional Brembo 6 piston/larger rotor up grade for the SS reminds me of the AP racing calipers/steel rotors used on those cars. Now, next question, do I want them? Yeah, they are definitely bad ass and perform to a higher level. I just don't think they are essential to the performance of the vehicle. As long as they can perform for a track day (25-45 min sessions) w/o fade and have excellent capabilities, I'll take steels or CC's.

To me the unsprung weight loss is just as important if not more than the braking ability.

GrimReaperSS · 04-13-2016, 09:49 PM

Well, that is just another factor to throw in as well. I've handled a few sets of carbon rotors at work for Porsche's and Mercedes, they are insanely light for their size.

blessedhellride · 04-14-2016, 12:23 PM

when your pedal falls to the floorboard, I would say yes.....

WHAMMO · 05-03-2016, 02:44 AM

If they do NOT want to sell them, do NOT make it an option. I hope they learn from the last Z28 mistake...

04-14-2016, 12:23 PM	#27
blessedhellride Drives: 2014 Z/28; 2014 Ram 2500 CTD Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: DFW-Fairview Posts: 498	when your pedal falls to the floorboard, I would say yes..... __________________ 2015 Silverado 2500 2014 Z/28

05-03-2016, 02:44 AM	#28
WHAMMO Drives: 13' 1LE Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 2,642	If they do NOT want to sell them, do NOT make it an option. I hope they learn from the last Z28 mistake... __________________ 13' 1LE Old setup: TSP 231-236/Tick 660/.105 PR, UDP, SW LT 2'' & HFC, stock NPP & H pipe, VR-DRX CAI, air scoop, Goertz1 manifold, 102mm BBK, 26" Toyo DRs, Forgestars R17x10 & F18x8, rear seat delete, remote Pat G tune Autocal, 7400 limiter, Spec Mini Twin. 91oct. 11.90@122.3, 0-60ft 2.0 / 11.99@123.6, 0-60ft 2.1 DA+819 ...519RWHP SAE Solid roller SBE LS3, FED, LLSR, 91oct, 605rwhp N/A. Tuned by Pat G. Build by me.

04-06-2016, 01:01 PM	#15
MrChrisLS3 Drives: 2018 1SS M6 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Houston Posts: 2,617	From what I understand about CC brakes, along with the performance characteristics already mentioned, the rotors last forever, as in don't wear, at least not nearly as fast as steel, nor warp like steel tends to do, especially after many severe heat cycles. Also pads last longer as well. at least this is what I have come to understand. If the above is true, and you track the car frequently, I could see where CC brakes is one of those "extras" that pays for itself in the long run in terms of maintenance. Maybe some of you with first hand experience can confirm or correct?

04-13-2016, 08:17 PM	#23
GrimReaperSS Drives: 2001 Onyx Black/Ebony SS. 427/M6 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Sussex, Wi Posts: 509	I personally don't see them as a nessecity. I look at the heavier CTS-V and now the ZL1 with their giant steel rotors that can handle the track duties. Put the capapbilities of those brakes on a lighter vehicle, no problem! The Turbo 4 press drive of the ZL1's should account for this. They claimed they pounder those cars for 2+ hours straight! I don't remember reading anything on writers commenting or even questioning the brakes, it was all about whether or not the cooling system could handle the track. As stated above as well, the cars competing in the Continental Challenge have to install steels for their racing rules and they are up to the challenge. In fact, the optional Brembo 6 piston/larger rotor up grade for the SS reminds me of the AP racing calipers/steel rotors used on those cars. Now, next question, do I want them? Yeah, they are definitely bad ass and perform to a higher level. I just don't think they are essential to the performance of the vehicle. As long as they can perform for a track day (25-45 min sessions) w/o fade and have excellent capabilities, I'll take steels or CC's.

04-13-2016, 08:22 PM	#24
GrimReaperSS Drives: 2001 Onyx Black/Ebony SS. 427/M6 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Sussex, Wi Posts: 509	Would be interesting to see if they decide to stick the carbon fiber elsewhere in the vehicle. It's been used in the roof and hood of the Vette for some time now, why not trickle down to the Camaro? Maybe even a trunk lid as well if they want to get the weight down and the center of gravity lower. Sorry, a bit skew of true topic.

04-13-2016, 09:49 PM	#26
GrimReaperSS Drives: 2001 Onyx Black/Ebony SS. 427/M6 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Sussex, Wi Posts: 509	Well, that is just another factor to throw in as well. I've handled a few sets of carbon rotors at work for Porsche's and Mercedes, they are insanely light for their size.

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