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Old 11-26-2017, 12:48 AM   #1
metros11

 
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Another Camaro vs Mustang comparison... and personal verdict

I just want to preface this post by mentioning that I'm not a brand loyalist. I grew up in my younger years tinkering with a SR20 powered FWD Nissan, moved on to a Saabaru wagon and then went electric with the Volt. Each experience was unique in it's own right, but the V8s really started grabbing my attention about three years ago when I saw the '13-'14 revisions of the S197 Mustang. From there my interest spread into the Challengers, Chargers, Camaros and the Chevy SS, each offering something different in it's own right. I can appreciate the Dodge products for what they are, straight line muscle car beasts. But that's not exactly what I'm after. I own a share of a Lemons/Chump racer, so I much prefer the twisties as oppose to the quarter mile strip. In that regard the choice comes down to two, Camaro SS vs the Mustang GT.

I don't have to tell you guys, the Camaro is hard to beat. It has it's flaws, just like any other car, but it has owned the Mustang for a while now in the performance department. I was really waiting for the '18 refresh to make my mind up about the Mustang, wanted to see what Ford had to offer. So today I finally had the opportunity to test drive a brand new GT with the Performance Package back to back with a 2018 Camaro 2SS, both with a manual transmission. Here are my observations...

Butt dyno: This will come as no surprise, they were very very similar in terms of power, but the delivery was definitely slightly different.
The Mustang feels smoother, and has a longer rev range. The Camaro is somewhat brute, but not necessarily in a bad way. Even.

Joystick: The shifter on the Camaro is good, very good. But the Mustang's is absolute butter. So smooth and precise, they've done a great job there. And I found my foot adapting to the Ford's clutch a lot quicker. (Advantage) Mustang.

Sights: The Mustang is obviously a lot easier to see out of. The seating position in the pony is also more upright. The Camaro is a straight up sports car. You sit lower, the car sits lower, the A-pillars block more of your view. The rear is 'forget it', but you get the backup camera in both cars, so you have what you need when you need to go backwards. Mustang.

Sounds: The Mustang GT did not have the active exhaust option like the Camaro, but that didn't stop it from signing some fine tunes. It really was heavenly. The Camaro belted out some great songs as well, but... Mustang, by a slight margin.

Turning: No magnetic control in either car. Truthfully I didn't have the opportunity to push either of them into the corners. They both felt compliant and adequate, met my expectations. Even (although we all know Camaro wins this on the track).

Slowing down: Ford Brembos vs Chevy Brembos. I think the Mustang's fronts are 6 pod in PP trim, where the Camaro get 4 pods in stock form. Honestly, they felt similar. Even.

Livable space: When I first test drove a Camaro I brought my kid and his booster seat. I knew about the unusable back seats as far as adults are concerned, but needed to ensure the kids fit. They do. I expected the Mustang to surpass the Camaro in this category by a large margin, but not so. It would still be extremely hard to place an adult comfortably behind the driver. And let's talk about the trunk. The Mustang has a bigger opening, sure, but the extra space it has on the sides is really not that usable. The Camaro opening is smaller, but the trunk is probably as deep
if not deeper than the Mustang's by a few inches. Even.

Breaking necks: This will probably upset a bunch of people, but don't get too butt hurt. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, the new Stang is gorgeous. Vader front is growing on me, the rear is delicious, especially with the new PP wing, which is 100x better that the Camaro's. The Chevy though is not far behind in some aspects. The front is killer in it's own way, and not necessarily less attractive than the Mustang's. The rear... well. Let's just say it looks good with the blade spoiler and NPP exhaust, I'll leave it at that. Mustang.

Fun: Both are fun on the street, that's the bottom line. How can you not have fun in these cars... well okay, maybe the speed limit prevents it, so take it to the track... Even.

$$$$$: Since the 6th gen came out, all I've been hearing about is what a bargain the Mustang is over the Camaro. Well... a base Camaro SS stickers at $37,995. Let's say you want a base Mustang GT, minus the calculator screen, so you step up to the 201A package and get the same things that a base Camaro gets. You're at $37,995. Not a coincidence. Even.

At this point you're probably wondering, when all this nonsense is going to end, so without further adieu... <drum roll>

Verdict: I bought a Camaro.

Bottom line, the Chevy is a much better value overall. You get more toys for your money. If you spec out the SS 1LE and a comparable Mustang GT PP L2 (almost the same price), the Mustang is missing the trans and diff coolers, rev matching (although they do have no-lift), HUD, NPP exhaust (separate option), and the PDR option. But most importantly it's also missing a warranty that extends to the track.

If I'm buying a legitimate sports car I want to take it to the limits at the track and do so with the comfort in knowledge that the manufacturer stands behind their products.
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:06 AM   #2
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Congrats but from reading your review you should have gotten the Mustang, you found it equal or better in every category and even though 'Al said so' there is no guarantee you will have a hassle-free warranty claim if something breaks on track.
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:32 AM   #3
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No surprise you bought the Camaro. Ford had to build a car that cost more to compete. It's not the bargain it once was, so I see sales declining for Ford and increasing for Camaro. Aside from some of the 6th gen Camaro issues, it's seems to be gaining popularity. Seeing more of them everyday on the streets.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:53 AM   #4
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Congrats but from reading your review you should have gotten the Mustang, you found it equal or better in every category and even though 'Al said so' there is no guarantee you will have a hassle-free warranty claim if something breaks on track.
Yes, absolutely congrats on the car. No doubt you'll love it.

But, like this reply says, your conclusion doesn't seem to match the bullet points in your review. Seemed that you preferred most aspects of the Mustang.

You mentioned the 1LE and PDR - is that what you ended up with, or did you buy the same non-1LE SS that you test drove?
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:15 AM   #5
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Just more of thePill's offspring coming over and trolling. Ah, the joy.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
Turning: No magnetic control in either car. Truthfully I didn't have the opportunity to push either of them into the corners. They both felt compliant and adequate, met my expectations. Even (although we all know Camaro wins this on the track).

Breaking necks: This will probably upset a bunch of people, but don't get too butt hurt. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, the new Stang is gorgeous. Vader front is growing on me, the rear is delicious, especially with the new PP wing, which is 100x better that the Camaro's. The Chevy though is not far behind in some aspects. The front is killer in it's own way, and not necessarily less attractive than the Mustang's. The rear... well. Let's just say it looks good with the blade spoiler and NPP exhaust, I'll leave it at that. Mustang.

Fun: Both are fun on the street, that's the bottom line. How can you not have fun in these cars... well okay, maybe the speed limit prevents it, so take it to the track... Even.

$$$$$: Since the 6th gen came out, all I've been hearing about is what a bargain the Mustang is over the Camaro. Well... a base Camaro SS stickers at $37,995. Let's say you want a base Mustang GT, minus the calculator screen, so you step up to the 201A package and get the same things that a base Camaro gets. You're at $37,995. Not a coincidence. Even.
Surprised you ended up with the Camaro based on your review. I think it would be interesting doing same review of the Mustang with the track package and a SS 1LE.

Regarding the points above:

Turning - I haven't driven a Mustang, but the mag ride, performance suspension and the wheels/tires make the 1LE amazing from Tour mode to Track mode.

Breaking Necks - What's wrong with the rear?

Fun - If you think a standard SS is fun, a 1LE is... well.

$$$$$ - Find the right dealer and a 1LE can be <$40,000.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:17 AM   #7
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i'll be doing the same comparison soon, currently own a 2016 ScatPack Challenger and haven't driven a 6th gen Camaro or Mustang before.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:12 PM   #8
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My buddy has a '17 Roush stage 3. It's not even in the same league as my Zl1. Interior, exterior. fit and finish. Nor performance. Not even close.

His response to me.............yea, but you still have a Camaro. I said, true, but you are down 200 hp, your suspension is complete garbage, and your seats are fkn hard as a rock. But, enjoy your Mustang.

He still won't race me. And i know he lives on the Mustang forums, so all of his canned responses I know he gets his cue's from the Mustang crowd. I'm like, dude, do you seriously think your Roush is in the same league? He does unfortunately. He's one of those..........I have a Mustang, therefore I am King.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by kttxz06 View Post
My buddy has a '17 Roush stage 3. It's not even in the same league as my Zl1. Interior, exterior. fit and finish. Nor performance. Not even close.

His response to me.............yea, but you still have a Camaro. I said, true, but you are down 200 hp, your suspension is complete garbage, and your seats are fkn hard as a rock. But, enjoy your Mustang.

He still won't race me. And i know he lives on the Mustang forums, so all of his canned responses I know he gets his cue's from the Mustang crowd. I'm like, dude, do you seriously think your Roush is in the same league? He does unfortunately. He's one of those..........I have a Mustang, therefore I am King.
he drives a polished turd..the susspension is utter garbage.. the whole car is junk.
the guys a fool.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:39 PM   #10
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he drives a polished turd..the susspension is utter garbage.. the whole car is junk.
the guys a fool.
I agree and it goes to show you how other people interpret things. Before he bought his Mustang, he was out shopping. I told him to get the Zl1. He wouldn't bite. He can't find it within himself to buy a Chevy. haha. He cracks me up. I text him last night after he wouldn't meet up and hit the streets with me. I said, come on man. I'll even let you have the hit. He knows he has a POS, it's just hard to admit it.

Stock, he was already at a disadvantage. He spent a few grand on suspension mods and negated performance. He said, why build more HP if I can't keep it on the ground? I said, good point. I don't have suspension problems in the Zl1. So, I'll go performance mods first. My suspension can handle the HP upgrades. I burned him.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by metros11 View Post

Sights: You sit lower, the car sits lower, the A-pillars block more of your view.
From Car and Driver's measurements, the Mustang's driver's side A pillar actually blocks more of your forward view at 18 degrees than the Camaro's 13 degrees. Passenger side is even at 10 degrees each. Unfortunately, you can't compare the view out the back because the C&D failed to include the rear window in their rear visibility measurement.

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Old 11-26-2017, 06:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE View Post
Congrats but from reading your review you should have gotten the Mustang, you found it equal or better in every category and even though 'Al said so' there is no guarantee you will have a hassle-free warranty claim if something breaks on track.
I'm giving Ford the credit where due. However, even in those instances where the Mustang was better, it's not as if the Camaro was a distant second. Again, most of my responses peg both either even, or Mustang with a slight edge, I was already impressed with all those aspects of the Camaro to begin with. What sold me specifically on the car is the performance and value. The Mustang is an excellent car, and it's probably the best Grant Tourer you can buy and live comfortably with. But I'm not sold on the overall performance aspect, even in the upcoming PP L2 trim. The Alpha platform is simply better, you get more features for your money, you actually get track related stuff that enhances your experience. The GT PP L2 will be fast, but will it be as fast as the SS 1LE? I don't see it. Because at that point Ford would have to break into the GT350 performance territory, and stepping on the toes of an upcoming legend is bad for business. Then there's the lack of trans and diff coolers. Have they not learned from the GT350 fiasco? I'm not going to track the car all day every day... but when I do eventually take it to test the limits, I don't want to worry about overheating the trans and limping into the paddock after a few runs (or worse blowing the trans altogether) . These are performance cars that sticker over $40K, the coolers should be standard. And then you look at the price. The 1LE is here today, and it's already a performance bargain before the discounts. The PP L2 will be available in the spring (although they're already taking orders) and will sticker at $45,000. So.. not as good of a car (or same car at best) and will certainly be more expensive to obtain. There was one other aspect that ultimately got me into the Camaro. I pictured the rear seats and the trunk of the Mustang to be much bigger, and for it to win over my 'family' side. The advantage in leg room and storage was so slight it didn't impress me. Ultimately you could say I test drove the Mustang to talk myself out of buying a Camaro, but that didn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjones14 View Post
Yes, absolutely congrats on the car. No doubt you'll love it.

But, like this reply says, your conclusion doesn't seem to match the bullet points in your review. Seemed that you preferred most aspects of the Mustang.

You mentioned the 1LE and PDR - is that what you ended up with, or did you buy the same non-1LE SS that you test drove?
I test drove a 2SS with NPP Exhaust and a bunch of other add-on accessories. It was a nice car but not for me. I told the sales person as much, and expressed my interest in the 1LE, which they didn't have. I fully expected to walk away and continue my search online, but that didn't happen. They found the exact color and features I wanted, they beat the price I was offered by two other high volume dealers, and they didn't even have the car on the lot. Bottom line, they wanted my business and made it happen.

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Originally Posted by kttxz06 View Post
Just more of thePill's offspring coming over and trolling. Ah, the joy.
???

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Originally Posted by HeaterMan View Post
i'll be doing the same comparison soon, currently own a 2016 ScatPack Challenger and haven't driven a 6th gen Camaro or Mustang before.
I love the ScatPacks, both Challenger and Charger. Bonkers cars, lot's of fun, but ultimately not my cup of tee.
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:02 PM   #13
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Breaking Necks - What's wrong with the rear?
The smoked housing for the brake lamps should be standard on all these cars. I bet they'd sell more of them.

What are those side sills btw on yours?
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:24 PM   #14
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The smoked housing for the brake lamps should be standard on all these cars. I bet they'd sell more of them.

What are those side sills btw on yours?
They are ZL1 style side skirts for the 6th gen made by ACS Composites.
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