[Stealthpanda]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Not sure about that...Ford seems to be doing awfully well putting out good numbers with the 5.0. Of course, the LS3 may have better mod potential.

GM could do pretty well with something between 5.0 to 5.5 lt especially with Direct Injection.

The thing is, once the weight comes down as it should for the 6th gen, even using the exact same amount of power would be a hell of an improvement. Calling for an SS with nearly 500 HP is really completely unnecessary.

Next ZL1 or Z28 should be the only model needing 500+ HP numbers.

Thats fair enough, nothing wrong with the Coyote engine at all. And yeah, if weight comes down, even to stock 11-12' mustang numbers (what 250-300 lbs lighter?), a 20-25 hp/lb-ft boost across the board will make it look like a rocket. What were the LS1 98-02 Camaros running in there day? Werent they like what 31-3200 lbs? I fully agree weight might mean more than power, in the future.

[Stealthpanda]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

The new DI V8 will probably be downsized a little, but not a lot. I can say from experience that the 5.0 Coyote does just fine with its Ti-VCT. Admittedly, it does give up a little low-end torque compared to the LS3, but not much. And it gets 28-29 mpg with the cruise set at 70 on the highway.

And keep in mind that the 6th Gen Camaro will likely be downsized as well. You can be sure that the new DI V8 in the 6th gen will have at least the same, if not better, torque to weight and power to weight ratios.

And again, no hate on the 5.0, although it is a bit lower on torque stock than the LS3 (methinks 395 lb-ft?).
Maybe this is the "ahem" ploy afterall. Start with something amazing to us, the people, and improve on its fuel efficiency, weight, etc for 6th gen.

[The_Blur]

By the way, the rumors have said that any DI V8 will be 5.5L.

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Not gonna happen.







Ford didn't so much kill the Ranger. It already died of old age about 10 years ago. Ford just finally pulled the plug on the life support.



Thank you. I was waiting for someone to say it.

Honestly, I don't get this TTV6s replacing V8s. I mean, I understand it from a marketing perspective....people have this notion in their heads that the TTV6 will be greatly efficient, and that V8s are old and wasteful, and in marketing perception becomes reality. And if Ford does it, GM has to do it because of perception alone.

The part I don't get is where are all the benefits for all the cost. From what I can tell, in the real world, downsized and turbo charged engines that maintain the same output of larger engines with 2 more cylinders only offer marginal fuel mileage increases if anything. Certainly not enough to justify the additional upfront cost. And for a buyer like me who keeps his cars for the long haul, the two $1500 each time bombs often referred to as turbochargers waiting for the day to blow a hole in my savings account is unsettling.

I could not possibly agree more with your analysis. Any supercharged or turbocharged V6 will test with a marginal advantage over V8s with similar specs. They will peak at different times, have different redlines, and have other characteristics that make one superior to the other in different conditions. They can appeal to different markets, including different performance markets. Imagine a platform offering a drift-spec, a track-spec, and a quarter mile-spec vehicle, all with different suspension, tuning, and even engine options. The Camaro could be that car one day, especially if GM is working on different performance powerhouses and experimenting with how to make each best.

I also agree with the possibility of failure with turbos. It's obviously far less common with cars built that way than vehicles that were originally naturally aspirated. That being said, parts fail much sooner when tuners and muscle car enthusiasts start taking things apart and putting them back together.

[invaderzim]

this thread is full of good and informative sounding stuff and all so I hate to dumb it down a bit but.. I'm not even worried about a 6th gen camaro. even number gens have historically been so so and the last one, 4th, nearly succeeded in killing off the model. 1,3 and 5 are the awesome gens. wake me up when 6 passes and 7th gen gets here. that is if 6 can't finish off what 4 nearly did...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Stealthpanda

Can we just pray its not a drastically lower displacement like the 5.0 DOHC Coyote engine? 6.2L OHC DI pl0x.(says without knowing much about engines)

There is no replacement for displacement, right?

In all likelihood, the next gen family of V8s will be based around 2 displacements, 5.3L and 6.2L. I'd guesstimate that the 5.3's should have comparable numbers to the current LS3, or perhaps a bit lower. In a lighter next-gen car, it should deliver superior performance. Of course ... a 6.2 would produce a lot more power than what is had today (my guesstimates say it should be good for at least 50 more hp over the current 6.2's). That would improve things ... more

And they're (thankfully) supposed to stick OHV's.

Originally Posted by The_Blur

By the way, the rumors have said that any DI V8 will be 5.5L.

Rumours which started because the Corvette LeMans team uses 5.5L engines, but the people that perpetuated the rumour tended to ignore the fact that this displacement is due only to the restrictions in the rule book. Earlier it was 6L, and Corvette racing used a 6L version of the LS7, but the actual production engine remained at 7L. Point being, GM will continue to produce engines in whatever displacement they see fit, regardless of the ALMS rules say for racecars.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by invaderzim

this thread is full of good and informative sounding stuff and all so I hate to dumb it down a bit but.. I'm not even worried about a 6th gen camaro. even number gens have historically been so so and the last one, 4th, nearly succeeded in killing off the model. 1,3 and 5 are the awesome gens. wake me up when 6 passes and 7th gen gets here. that is if 6 can't finish off what 4 nearly did...

Its going to fall on the styling of the car....because with the Alpha platform on hand and new engines and suspension technology available or on the very near horizon for GM....I can't see how the car wouldn't perform better than the 5th gen.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by zogster

There will be a V8 still, no way they get rid of it. It will be interesting what the model designation is of a twin turbo V6 Camaro though. Surely they won't use Z/28 or SS.

I've been sounding the alarms for a couple of months that the 4-cylinder engine will be in the new RS and the SS will have a V6 and super expensive limited production models like the ZL1 will be the only way to get a V8 Camaro, but I keep getting scolded for saying this because of some forum rules that do not allow criticism of the world we live in.

It's fine for the 500 or so people who can afford a limited production model, but everyone else will just have to make due with what the masses are offered.

[RollaMo]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I've been sounding the alarms for a couple of months that the 4-cylinder engine will be in the new RS and the SS will have a V6 and
super expensive limited production models like the ZL1 will be the only way to get a V8 Camaro
It's fine for the 500 or so people who can afford a limited production model

If GM thought the market was really that small, they wouldn't even bother with the ZL1 Camaro.

[mexiken]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I've been sounding the alarms for a couple of months that the 4-cylinder engine will be in the new RS and the SS will have a V6 and super expensive limited production models like the ZL1 will be the only way to get a V8 Camaro, but I keep getting scolded for saying this because of some forum rules that do not allow criticism of the world we live in.

It's fine for the 500 or so people who can afford a limited production model, but everyone else will just have to make due with what the masses are offered.

You're lost. On multiple levels.

[FL1CK]

LTZ for turbo'd 6?

[meissen]

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

Well they can keep there 6th gen, I will stick with my old pushrod ls3! A turbo v6 is not american muscle it's import talk, not interested. I hope not but the 5th gen could be the last Camaro as we know it, smaller car and a v6, might as well buy a 350z

Right, let's overlook the Turbo Trans Ams... Grand Nationals... I forgot, history only started for you when Fast and the Furious came out, right?

Originally Posted by The_Blur

GM has been developing a new DI V8 platform for a while. GM will not ditch the V8 when they have so much technology yet to throw at it to improve performance and fuel economy.

Exactly...

Originally Posted by invaderzim

this thread is full of good and informative sounding stuff and all so I hate to dumb it down a bit but.. I'm not even worried about a 6th gen camaro. even number gens have historically been so so and the last one, 4th, nearly succeeded in killing off the model. 1,3 and 5 are the awesome gens. wake me up when 6 passes and 7th gen gets here. that is if 6 can't finish off what 4 nearly did...

Sorry you lost your credibility when you included 3rd gens in that grouping.

[GearBangr]

Originally Posted by invaderzim

this thread is full of good and informative sounding stuff and all so I hate to dumb it down a bit but.. I'm not even worried about a 6th gen camaro. even number gens have historically been so so and the last one, 4th, nearly succeeded in killing off the model. 1,3 and 5 are the awesome gens. wake me up when 6 passes and 7th gen gets here. that is if 6 can't finish off what 4 nearly did...

3rd, 4th, and 5th gens are the best cars in my opinion. They got better and better by the year. Sure the 3rd weren't the fastest, but they brought performance back from the 70s.
I've had 2nd, 3rd, and currently own LS1 and LT1 cars. The older cars don't hold a candle to these. I love classic muscle as much as anyone else, but performance speaking, they're on different levels. Personaly I can't wait to drive an ATS based 6th gen.

[iHasCamaro]

Oh shit if Buick makes a retro Grand National that will be sick. Why haven't they?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by iHasCamaro

Oh shit if Buick makes a retro Grand National that will be sick. Why haven't they?

Why would they is more the question. Luxury sport is the domain of Cadillac, not Buick. If Buick were to venture into that side of things, it would become even harder to create a unique image for the brand. This is also one of the reasons why I'm growing to dislike the Regal GS. While its a good car, its not exactly a good Buick.

I think that if Buick were to have any sort of RWD aspirations, the best way for them to do it would be with something more like a Rivera than a Grand National. A comfortable cruiser, not a high-performance beast.