[Rock-It Man]

Originally Posted by Nilly Welson

Time for America to start making its own sh!t again. We don't have time for this. MAGA!��

It will in fact take time to turn this around and make stuff in America again.

Xenophobia and slogans won't make it happen.

Education, science, and hard work will; values unfamiliar to the orange clown.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

Xenophobia and slogans won't make it happen.

What does this comment have to do with anything, other then show your myopic view and be divisive?

I think we all have a stake in keeping our country strong and independent.

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

Education, science, and hard work will; values unfamiliar to the orange clown.

What were you just saying about Xenophobia and slogans?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I don't usually find myself agreeing with Number 3, but this is one of those days. Cheaper ≠ better, and no outsourcing "game" can be played forever, which we are finding out the hard way.

Awwwww come on. Only two things anyone disagrees with me on. Visibility sucks, and it does. And a TV commercial would be awesome, which it would……just not enough of an increase in sales to justify it. Otherwise not much to disagree with.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Awwwww come on. Only two things anyone disagrees with me on. Visibility sucks, and it does. And a TV commercial would be awesome, which it would……just not enough of an increase in sales to justify it. Otherwise not much to disagree with.

Don't forget the golf bags and trunk. I know you also love that one.

As for the original topic, not much to add other than the fact that the global supply chain, in general, can get pretty messy. And heh, companies have to keep the stockholders happy. That's just the unfortunate reality of it. Screaming on the forum is mostly akin to the old Simpson "Old Man Yells at Cloud" meme.

[pzoom]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

It will in fact take time to turn this around and make stuff in America again.

Xenophobia and slogans won't make it happen.

Education, science, and hard work will; values unfamiliar to the orange clown.

Originally Posted by 95 imp

What does this comment have to do with anything, other then show your myopic view and be divisive?

I think we all have a stake in keeping our country strong and independent.



What were you just saying about Xenophobia and slogans?

I thought that name (Rock-It Man) looked familiar. He’s the clown from corvetteforum. I’d put him on ignore.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

It will in fact take time to turn this around and make stuff in America again.

Xenophobia and slogans won't make it happen.

Education, science, and hard work will; values unfamiliar to the orange clown.

Well said. I concur completely.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Awwwww come on. Only two things anyone disagrees with me on. Visibility sucks, and it does. And a TV commercial would be awesome, which it would……just not enough of an increase in sales to justify it. Otherwise not much to disagree with.

I'm with you on the advertising and visibility issues, Number 3!

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

I think we all have a stake in keeping our country strong and independent.

We sure do. I would like to see more in-house work done though. Anytime you outsource a piece of your mfg chain you risk exactly whats happening right now. Your stuck. You have NO recourse. No amount of money can fix this. I wonder if this will prompt automakers to reconsider their chip sourcing? I know that you dont just whip up a chip producing factory overnight but long term it might be a worthy investment.

The reliance on chips in cars is only going to become more common. Maybe its time to do more of it in-house?

[Martinjlm]

The video does a great job of providing understanding of the supply side. Would love to see a similar video detailing the demand side and how we got to where we are.

As pointed out in the video, companies place orders about a year in advance for semi-conductors. And the fabs (video likes using that word instead of factories) build to the orders they received. So what changed? Believe it or not, COVID has had the single biggest impact on semi-conductor impacts.

Demand has been growing continuously over many years. Semiconductor content in autos has also been growing due to more computer controlled systems on top of the continued volume growth of the auto market. Even so, automakers in total represented less than 10% of the total order book for chips. So large auto companies are not in the seat of power in dealing with this particular group of suppliers. So, COVID hits. Auto plants shut down and automakers cancel deliveries and orders of chips. Chipmakers say “cool…now I can get to some of these backorders”. At the same time, demand for consumer electronics skyrocket. Now that people are stuck at home, the idea of a new PS5 starts to become more appealing. Chip production is shifted from autos to gaming consoles and other consumer electronics. The fires in Japan and droughts in Taiwan didn’t help, but they would have been speed bumps had the demand shift not already triggered a supply shift before that. Those things basically curtailed the ability of chip manufacturers to play catch up.

Because the automakers are not the 800 lb gorilla in the chip makers’ customer book, they can’t just pound their chests and make demands that the chip suppliers have to follow. Especially when it involves shifting volume away from bigger and likely more profitable customers. It might work for brake manufacturers. Not so much for chip makers.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

We sure do. I would like to see more in-house work done though. Anytime you outsource a piece of your mfg chain you risk exactly whats happening right now. Your stuck. You have NO recourse. No amount of money can fix this. I wonder if this will prompt automakers to reconsider their chip sourcing? I know that you dont just whip up a chip producing factory overnight but long term it might be a worthy investment.

The reliance on chips in cars is only going to become more common. Maybe its time to do more of it in-house?

In house is less important than in country. Chips are not just for cars. In fact, they’re more for other things, so economies of scale would likely fall more towards having US-based manufacturers of chips to supply the auto industry AND the medical industry AND the military industry and…and…and. President Biden signed an executive order in February calling for acceleration of chip manufacture in the US and is pressing Congress to authorize $50 billion to fund it. As far as I know, the Senate has approved the spending but it has yet to make its way through the House.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Don't forget the golf bags and trunk. I know you also love that one.

As for the original topic, not much to add other than the fact that the global supply chain, in general, can get pretty messy. And heh, companies have to keep the stockholders happy. That's just the unfortunate reality of it. Screaming on the forum is mostly akin to the old Simpson "Old Man Yells at Cloud" meme.

First, it not something I scream about, although I'm not sure if you trying to be funny (that is funny) or seriously trying to slam me.

Getting a complete set of clubs in the trunk is something a) some buyers want and b) something could easily be done in a Gen5.

And I'm at a loss how this falls into the disagreement list, lol.

When we talk about the sales failure, it's simply the list of compromises GM made to give us the best Camaro ever.

To quote Bob Lutz, "you can sell a young mans car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man". Now insert visibility, trunks space (golf bag is just my application of trunk space btw) and rear seat (again at launch GM told us they didn't care about the rear seat as Consumer Reports give 1 point to a coupe regardless of the room) in place of "old man". That is why the sales volume is so bad and why GM has put any money into it and why we will likely get an EV performance coupe from Chevy to replace it.

I'm always at a loss as to why people, you included, find these discussion points personal and make it a disagreement. If GM wanted the Camaro to sell worse than the Corvette they did a GREAT job. Problem is that wasn't the plan.

I'll rehash the problem with the internet (read social media), "It isn't a problem for me so it can't be a problem for anyone else".

And by the way it's fine to not see the impact of the tradeoffs on sales. It's by far the best Camaro EVER. It just missed on some key elements that would have given the car a broader appeal with the result being better sales which would have lead to more investment and maybe a longer life. But a lot of people by BRZs and Miatas and other even worse selling sporty/sports cars that also have no rear seat or room for golf clubs.

And to be clear, the Corvette (GM's actual and only sports car) also made compromises to accommodate 2 sets of golf clubs. It's a bit longer, and a bit heavier for it.

[95 imp]

LOL- I don't know too many young men buying the Honda Civic so they can fit their golf clubs in the back....

[jamala00]

I take my 6th Gen to the golf course weekly. When I'm by myself I take my driver out and put it in the passenger seat. The rest of the clubs in the bag fit in the truck. When the wife golfs with me I put the back seat down, put both sets of clubs and her 3 wheel cart in and go.

I do agree on the visibility issue. I thought in 2015 when we bought the wifes Impala that it has bad visibility because we replaced a 2003 Bonneville. With how short they made the windows in the Impala compared to the Bonneville and the higher back end and smaller rear window both my wife and I thought the Impala had poor visibility. Now when I go from the Camaro to her Impala it's like I'm sitting in a glass house. Her car has excellent visibility compared to the Camaro. Now my DD is a 2018 Tahoe... So both the Camaro and the Impala have poor visibility compared to sitting in that. They are what they are. You just need to get used to them. I personally don't think that anyone looking to get into a modern pony car that will not buy it because of visibility doesn't want one that bad.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by jamala00

They are what they are. You just need to get used to them. I personally don't think that anyone looking to get into a modern pony car that will not buy it because of visibility doesn't want one that bad.

But it did make the 2SS package and the additional driver/safety aids a bit more attractive and worth the price bump!