November 2012 Camaro Sales and Production Figures (and vs. Mustang & Challenger)

[Enator]

November 2012 Delivery (sales) Stats:

Camaro November 2012 Deliveries (actual sales): 4,464 -13% (Pr Ye)

November 2012 Production Stats:

Camaro Produced in November 2012: 10,529

Compared to Competition:

Mustang sold 5,309 units in November 2012 +37% (Pr Ye)
Challenger sold 2,868 units in November 2012 -4% (Pr Ye)

[Stingray]

The facelifted '13 Mustang is helping their case of increased sales. The trends are telltales signs... Camaro sales have recently dipped more consistently when compared to Challengers and Mustangs which are getting more & more attention. Was hoping the ZL1 and 1LE would boost sales of the more normal variants. The trend is interesting... definitely volatile.

[pnyklr]

YTD is neck in neck. Here is hoping for an awesome December!

-Funk

[sprtplt]

Obviously, it is past time for some serious incentives for Camaro.

[Remford]

Originally Posted by sprtplt

Obviously, it is past time for some serious incentives for Camaro.

That's exactly the problem with Camaro - and the whole of GM for that matter. The cars it makes has little to do with how well they sell, which depends almost entirely upon how much GM is willing to pay customers to buy one.

It's one of the primary reasons GM tanked to begin with and why, despite enjoying one of Detroit's lowest cost structures, it has among the entire industry's worst profit margins. The instant Gm takes the money off the hood, interest stops in its tracks.

About all Camaro has to look forward too is how poorly GM trucks are doing by comparison with a 139 days' supply on hand and near-record incentives on many models. With all the new trucks it wants to introduce, it's going to need to almost walk away from an entire quarter worth of truck profits just to clear a runway for its own new goods.

Unfortunately, just like Europe where Opel continues to churn product beyond customer demand, every OTHER maker will also be caught up as collateral damage needing to compete on the basis of incentives rather than product.

For all the tens of billions expropriated and poured into GM, this is the one fundamental problem it hasn't been cracked despite others having done on their own long ago. And it won't get any easier when the next contract comes around and the "sweetheart" effect of the UAW's retirement trust owning 1/4 of GM doesn't have the cash value anybody once expected and workers start demanding a proverbial bird in the hand.

[shockandawe]

Looks like a bad month for our beloved Camaro.

[edco]

I admit to being a Mustang fan from the 1960s. I am surprised and not surprised at the sales success of the Camaro. In the 1960s there were two Chevy dealers for every one Ford dealer. Lot of Chevy drivers in the baby boom. That said, the Camaro to me, along with the Challenger are just too much like sedans to capture what a Pony car is and or was. I don't think GM or Dodge cares about that and they should not, their cars are excellent in their own right. The Camaro evolved from the 375HP V8, IRS, Pontiac G8. That is a very nice sedan. Cut down by two doors and two wheelbase inches you have the Camaro. It rides nicer than any Mustang. So does a Lincoln Town Car. Chevy and Dodge drove HP & TQ numbers to unheard of factory heights to appeal to the "Pony" element. Crazy as it sounds I prefer the ride and handling of the solid rear axle, the 3300 pound weight of my 07 GT, the 107" wb, and the Tremec 5 speed. Five years of evolution later the Mustang is trending to the refinement and 400+ Hp side, however it still has that Pony car feeling which to some buyers is important. I am surprised that Mustang occasionally out sells the Camaro. There is considerable crossover, but, I suspect there are differences in the Mustang buyer v. Camaro/Challenger buyer.

[v6sonoma]

Originally Posted by Enator

November 2012 Delivery (sales) Stats:

Camaro November 2012 Deliveries (actual sales): 4,464 -13% (Pr Ye)

November 2012 Production Stats:

Camaro Produced in November 2012: 10,529

Compared to Competition:

Mustang sold 5,309 units in November 2012 +37% (Pr Ye)
Challenger sold 2,868 units in November 2012 -4% (Pr Ye)

Enator looking at the last chart the numbers look to be flip flopped between production and deliveries.

[DarkneSS]

Originally Posted by Remford

That's exactly the problem with Camaro - and the whole of GM for that matter. The cars it makes has little to do with how well they sell, which depends almost entirely upon how much GM is willing to pay customers to buy one.

It's one of the primary reasons GM tanked to begin with and why, despite enjoying one of Detroit's lowest cost structures, it has among the entire industry's worst profit margins. The instant Gm takes the money off the hood, interest stops in its tracks.

About all Camaro has to look forward too is how poorly GM trucks are doing by comparison with a 139 days' supply on hand and near-record incentives on many models. With all the new trucks it wants to introduce, it's going to need to almost walk away from an entire quarter worth of truck profits just to clear a runway for its own new goods.

Unfortunately, just like Europe where Opel continues to churn product beyond customer demand, every OTHER maker will also be caught up as collateral damage needing to compete on the basis of incentives rather than product.

For all the tens of billions expropriated and poured into GM, this is the one fundamental problem it hasn't been cracked despite others having done on their own long ago. And it won't get any easier when the next contract comes around and the "sweetheart" effect of the UAW's retirement trust owning 1/4 of GM doesn't have the cash value anybody once expected and workers start demanding a proverbial bird in the hand.

+They need to follow subarus model and make less cars than there is demand for. People are willing to wait a little longer to get a car if they get to build all the options they want.

Gm floods the market with cars, driving down the value of all of them.

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by edco

I admit to being a Mustang fan from the 1960s. I am surprised and not surprised at the sales success of the Camaro. In the 1960s there were two Chevy dealers for every one Ford dealer. Lot of Chevy drivers in the baby boom. That said, the Camaro to me, along with the Challenger are just too much like sedans to capture what a Pony car is and or was. I don't think GM or Dodge cares about that and they should not, their cars are excellent in their own right. The Camaro evolved from the 375HP V8, IRS, Pontiac G8. That is a very nice sedan. Cut down by two doors and two wheelbase inches you have the Camaro. It rides nicer than any Mustang. So does a Lincoln Town Car. Chevy and Dodge drove HP & TQ numbers to unheard of factory heights to appeal to the "Pony" element. Crazy as it sounds I prefer the ride and handling of the solid rear axle, the 3300 pound weight of my 07 GT, the 107" wb, and the Tremec 5 speed. Five years of evolution later the Mustang is trending to the refinement and 400+ Hp side, however it still has that Pony car feeling which to some buyers is important. I am surprised that Mustang occasionally out sells the Camaro. There is considerable crossover, but, I suspect there are differences in the Mustang buyer v. Camaro/Challenger buyer.

I can appreciate that. I really miss my '98 Camaro SS. Loved how it was firm, racy, but still driveable. I now drive an IRS sedan and the difference is night and day. But as I get older, I appreciate the comfort. Still...I tried to firm it up a bit, but it's still comfortable. I just love that the Camaro is back and the pony car wars are raging on. We need this.

[xxxfelix]

[QUOTE=Remford;5874486]That's exactly the problem with Camaro - and the whole of GM for that matter. The cars it makes has little to do with how well they sell, which depends almost entirely upon how much GM is willing to pay customers to buy one.



GM now sells more cars in China than in the US. GM's market share in South America and Australia are also increasing. The European and US auto markets have peaked about 2 years ago (due to aging populations, more younger generation folks postpone buying cars until they are in their twenties). The overseas emerging markets are becoming more and more important to GM, Ford as well as Chrysler.

GM has produce exciting new products - I am looking forward for the next generation corvette in 2013 and the new camaro in a few years. Folks, we should have faith in GM

[LAWMAN]

I for one knew that the sell's would pick up for the mustang after the hp increase,but i still think the camaro looks better,

[KaBoom1701]

Well I just bought mine..........so I did my part to help!

[ZL-Bee]

1 very noticeable problem with the current gen Mustang IMO. It feels too much like the 93-02 GM FBody. After owning an FBody for 10 years I couldn't wait to get away from the 2 seater with useless rear seats feel. The new Mustangs are very nice, and they are keeping GM on the move with tech updates that they have in the Stang, but I'd never buy a Mustang.