LLT Twin Turbo

[LBreezie]

Originally Posted by Fabberge

We do get quite a few requests for LLT twin turbo system. We had a prototype done a long time ago, but due to not having a good tuning support, the project was scrambled. Now, it appears that HPTuners has released a support for those ECUs.

Would you be interested in us designing a kit for 2010-2011 V6 Camaros with LLT engines? If yes, I'd like to know why would you like to go with our system per say vs. what's out there now? Looks like RX and STS has systems for these cars out already. Money wise we'll be looking probably at around the same as out LFX kit (~$6700). Do you think it's a good price point? How many would commit to the kit at this price? For me to make a kit I'll probably have to have at least 5 people committed to it otherwise I can't justify doing R&D for it. I am just basing it off the LFX V6 camaro kit sales and they are not looking that hot unfortunately :(

Probably because our warranties are still on our cars

[Can't_C_Me]

I'm going to put it straight because this doesn't just pertain to FI. If there were proven kits or parts only 1% would buy it still. IPF was proven and so was the first LFX kit. No one bought a IPS kit and not many the IPF kit to justify production. Like the saying goes "gotta pay to play" not many are doing that. IPF offers warranties and still. No one car can deter2what another car will run. Put it on the road and break some parts and get to learn the car. Yeah this is coming from someone that has spent almost $18k on parts but I'm speaking nothing but hard to hear truths.

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[Can't_C_Me]

Originally Posted by LBreezie

Probably because our warranties are still on our cars

This mentally is why no one waste time on the V6 lol proved my point. So don't ask for kits or parts if your going to wait 4-5 years to play.

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[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by JantzenOKC

Well who's gonna take a $7, 000+ chance on a kit that we dont know much about?? Because wasnt that 460/440 dyno number tuned for 93 octane? And like 12psi boost? Idk that much but that seems like a lot of boost with our compression. The jay leno tt v6 runs like 7psi.. with 91 octane and lower boost the dyno numbers prob wont be so high.. maybe a little closer to the 400/370 ipf numbers?

That's comparing apples to oranges. We really don't know much about the Leno car so we can't say if 7 psi on that isn't flowing the same CFM as 12 psi for this kit. It is the amount of air flowing in that determines the power you make, pressure is just determines how quickly you deliver it.

That being said, with proper fueling and VVT tuning I don't see why 12 psi will be too much for the LLT internals. The issue will be if the HPFP can supply enough fuel to support the CFM delivered at that pressure. We do know the pump for the LLT doesn't flow as much as the one for the LFX, so that will probably be the limiting factor.

[ASH@IPF-TUNING]

Hello !

you can put big HPFPumps into the LLT and run 200Bar Rail pressure ... the ECU is cutting OFF injection timing after 5000 RPM to run the engine lean to AFR14.x and there is actual NO FIX in the HPT system for that !

That is the experiance from a calibration try at an IFP SC system with HPT from what i was told last week !

greets ASH@IPF-TUNING

[LBreezie]

Originally Posted by Can't_C_Me

This mentally is why no one waste time on the V6 lol proved my point. So don't ask for kits or parts if your going to wait 4-5 years to play.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

Yeah it basically is. But on the other hand I'm trying to save enough money hopefully in the next 4 months to get my hands on the IPS TT kit! I could care less about warranty

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by LBreezie

Yeah it basically is. But on the other hand I'm trying to save enough money hopefully in the next 4 months to get my hands on the IPS TT kit! I could care less about warranty

That's the right attitude. If it hasn't broke by now it probably ain't gonna break.

[JantzenOKC]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

That's comparing apples to oranges. We really don't know much about the Leno car so we can't say if 7 psi on that isn't flowing the same CFM as 12 psi for this kit. It is the amount of air flowing in that determines the power you make, pressure is just determines how quickly you deliver it.

That being said, with proper fueling and VVT tuning I don't see why 12 psi will be too much for the LLT internals. The issue will be if the HPFP can supply enough fuel to support the CFM delivered at that pressure. We do know the pump for the LLT doesn't flow as much as the one for the LFX, so that will probably be the limiting factor.

That makes sense, I'll be the first to say I dont know much about turbocharging.. before this Ive never even considered turbos on anything. Every car ive ever built performance wise has been old school.. but the more I learn about turbos the more I like the idea of it. And seems a good fit with our motors.

I really dont even care about the peak hp numbers and all that I just want what will the most fun on the street.. I wont be going to the drag strip just everyday driving fun! Thats one thing that I like about hp turbines dyno is how early the power and torque come in. The ipf supercharger doesnt seem to do much until 4k and up.. I like the low end torque of the turbos. Seems like it would be alot more fun.

Its just scary for a guy like me thats not loaded to spend $7k on something not knowing for sure how it would work out. From what I can tell hp turbine loves his kit but hes just one guy. Id hate to have a ton of problems with it after the fact with the mail order tuning and all, im in Oklahoma so its not like I would be able to take my car in there and problem solve anything.

Your car is awesome btw!!!

[SIXJAK]

I agree with Cisco. Lots of ppl saying "I can't wait for such and such FI system...yada yada yada. I tried the "RX kit" (a term used in a most generous way) and can confirm that the "world leader in FI" that made it sucks at everything including life. I have the IPF kit which actually does work. I'm moderately happy with the tune but it certainly could be better.

I think the reality is that most V6 guys have great intentions but just don't have the money so products trickle to the V6 market. This crappy economy certainly doesn't help either.

I'm hoping that in a few more years, our LLT's will have depreciated enough to make them a more attractive platform to mod but it has a few strikes against it.
1. Only 2 years of production so are there enough of them?
2. Bosch ECU
3. They are heavy cars.

Personally, I love mine. It sounds great, is quick enough to play with most street cars and is very comfortable on long trips.

Only time will tell how this all shapes out but unless more customers step forward, we all may continue to be disappointed with our options.

[Can't_C_Me]

Originally Posted by LBreezie

Yeah it basically is. But on the other hand I'm trying to save enough money hopefully in the next 4 months to get my hands on the IPS TT kit! I could care less about warranty

Yeah man enjoy the car. By all means I'm not saying break the bank or anything like that. But seems like some have the money just scared of what may happen after the purchase.

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[Z Madness]

Originally Posted by ASH@IPF-TUNING

Hello !

you can put big HPFPumps into the LLT and run 200Bar Rail pressure ... the ECU is cutting OFF injection timing after 5000 RPM to run the engine lean to AFR14.x and there is actual NO FIX in the HPT system for that !

That is the experiance from a calibration try at an IFP SC system with HPT from what i was told last week !

greets ASH@IPF-TUNING

So based on this early experience, the HPT doesn't help the LLT FI issues. So I guess HPT won't be the answer we were hoping for. Sad sauce. I was getting excited for a moment.

I guess that answers your question Faberge.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Z Madness

So based on this early experience, the HPT doesn't help the LLT FI issues. So I guess HPT won't be the answer we were hoping for. Sad sauce. I was getting excited for a moment.

I guess that answers your question Faberge.

It is still in beta. We need to give them a chance to complete this round of testing before passing judgement. I know Bill has helped get stuff for the LFX that wasn't in the first release just because GPI asked them.

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[NJBourne23]

I like the sound of this but can someone clarify why a turbo system is better than a S/C? Or is it just preference?

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by NJBourne23

I like the sound of this but can someone clarify why a turbo system is better than a S/C? Or is it just preference?

Better is subjective. I prefer turbos because:

1) You can adjust the boost with a push of a few buttons
2) You can choose different turbos to give you different power curves
3) Less parasitic loss

The advantages of the S/C as I seem them (but someone that has one should chime in) are:

1) Easy installation and removal
2) Linear power increase (although you can get this with the right turbos)
3) No clearance issues below the car
4) No oil return issues