[AZCamaroFan]

most cars don't get much advertising anymore. i see far fewer commercials than i use to and it's not like people don't know the Camaro is around.
they refreshed the car in 2019 and it was a disaster.

[50MileSmile]

Most of the advertising for vehicles has moved from TV and print sources to social media. The world has changed: Lack of Interest from GM + Aging Buyers + Overbearing Government Regulations + Low Sales = Bye-Bye Camaro (and Challenger and ICE Mustang in a few years).

I have a good friend who is about to buy his third Tesla, while at the same time I’m buying my third Camaro. Neither one of us can understand what the other one could possibly be thinking…

[Chevelle vs Camaro]

Yeah talk to some buddies who sell cars and they said cars are going to EV for dodge, ford and chevy because a certain amount of vehicles produced have to be EV.

They are doing it to cars and a Small SUV’s to avoid fines producing all the gas money maker…. Trucks.

Said at one point GM was loosing 15-20k on a particular car EV to keep selling them to avoid overall fines.

Not enough sports car buyers left to make sense…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Then why did GM not advertise the car then?
Why did they only care about sales now and not refresh the car as planned for '20?
Are you saying the fake MBAs here are wrong about GM not expecting a profit on the car and never planned to sell that many?

Good question.

Dodge ran TV ads for the Challenger when it first came out and its sales were the worst in this segment for years.

Then the Hellcat came out and they bundled the Challenger and Charger together in their hugely expensive ad campaign.

This time it paid off in sales but I think pairing it with the popular Charger in commercials was the lynchpin.

[Geese1]

This video showed up on my YouTube homepage on Wednesday night, but just finally got a chance to watch it. I thought it was pretty well done overall. It was sobering to see just how small the sports car market is, even compared to a few years ago. At this point it's only a small, hardcore fanbase that's keeping the sports car market alive, and if it wasn't for the halo effect these cars bring to a brand, and the small groups of enthusiasts working at the companies, it seems like we wouldn't be getting new ones at all. It certainly makes more financial sense for an automaker to keep making workaday CUVs, SUVs, and trucks.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by jamala00

I think gm has a part in killing off this site along with the 6th gen. This site is down more then it's available these days. The video was a good watch though.

Camaro5, Camaro6, and Corvette7 are all the exact same site. Same software, same servers, same database on the back-end. GM doesn't give the love to Camaro because it would hurt their Corvette sales. Or so they believe.

GM see the Mustang as its biggest competition (for the Camaro) while Ford sees the Corvette as its (for the Mustang). It's a total mis-alignment.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by GM-ACE

Yeah, I'm not sure the government can be completely to blame here. After all, they didn't force GM into horrible business decisions(Lutz) that DID actually lead to a bankruptcy & begging for a bailout.

If anything, the trimming GM had to do, did lead to a leaner, better GM, IMO. Way too many cookie cutter models across the brands. And if memory serves, I believe they killed the F bodies in 2002 to get out of their agreement with Canada to produce the F bods only in Canada, at that outdated facility.

Bankruptcy was caused by a giant spike in gas prices which took a huge hit on FST sales. They lost $10 billion in cash flow as a result could no longer meet their obligations. Ford was in worse shape earlier and was able to funding before the economy tanked. When GM needed it there was no money to borrow. So bailout.

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I'm completely non-partisan. I dislike all politicians as a matter of principle. I feel pretty much the same about 99% of federal government employees, excepting military.

I still recall setting a speed record for a cost benefit analysis (rebuilding a destroyed water treatment plant) for the US Army Corps of Engineers, and being told privately that I should have slowed down and used all the billable hours.

The idea that a government entity knows more about GM's business than GM does and could help them efficiently trim down is ludicrous.

When the “heavy handed government” was involved in day to day operations, they asked GM where they made money. GM execs embarrassingly admitted Corvette and Full Size Trucks”. “Then why aren’t you doing new ones”? “We didn’t think you would want that”. “What we want is for you to make money”, replied the government. At the time, GM had skinnier the FST to a new grille and the mid engine C7 was a simple reskin or C6.5 as we called it. The C7 was a result of “government innervention”

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

It is all BS.

No one wants an EV Camaro.

The Camaro is 1% of GM's sales yet its emissions/cafe are a big problem?
I am not buying its supposed detrimental impact. A six speed LT1 is very efficient in comparison to the trucks they pump out by the millions.
A warmed over 7th gen hybrid could hit the marks. Why do CT4/5s get two more years?

GM can't even build enough Camaros (again at 1% of sales) to meet demand.
How are they going to meet the demand for EVs that they claim is so much greater?

Recall that Queen Mary and Reuss ran to the whitehouse after Trump won to beg for an EV excecutive order mandate. He said no. Ask yourself why they did that.

No one wants an EV Camaro? LOL No one wants an ICE Camaro.

But what I think you meant was YOU don’t want an EV Camaro. You have no data to support “no one”.

Originally Posted by Red Chief

It's low sales, not fuel economy stuff.

Car culture has been in decline since the 80s when home video game consoles went mainstream. Even as horsepower crept back up, sales continued to decline.

Cellphones and DUI laws dealt the finishing blow to cars as a social tool.

A unnecessarily fast car is more of a status symbol now. People just assume you have money to burn and a pickup as your main vehicle.

If sales numbers were higher we would have had a NG car to get to the EV Camaro (like Mustang). They weren’t so we don’t.

Originally Posted by TheEnthusiast

True Answer: It's all the retarded liberals fault

Yeah, also to dramatically increase EV stock shares these crooks have bought with their illegal insider trading.

Please don’t use the R word. Some find it offensive. Since you weren’t talking about ignition timing I’m sure you meant the insensitive term.

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Then why did GM not advertise the car then?
Why did they only care about sales now and not refresh the car as planned for '20?
Are you saying the fake MBAs here are wrong about GM not expecting a profit on the car and never planned to sell that many?

Discussed at length. The latest gen was designed for Camaro owners and a broader audience was never considered in the design. As legend goes, the only thing close to a customer clinic was with die hard Camaro owners. So it would be the equivalent of advertising the best left handed baseball glove to right handers.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Camaro5, Camaro6, and Corvette7 are all the exact same site. Same software, same servers, same database on the back-end. GM doesn't give the love to Camaro because it would hurt their Corvette sales. Or so they believe.

Yes, I know... I was being sarcastic...

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Yes, I know... I was being sarcastic...

There are a LOT of members across those sites, though, that don't...

Too bad the admin seems to have given up on all of them.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Number 3

No one wants an EV Camaro? LOL No one wants an ICE Camaro.

But what I think you meant was YOU don’t want an EV Camaro. You have no data to support “no one”.

If sales numbers were higher we would have had a NG car to get to the EV Camaro (like Mustang). They weren’t so we don’t.

Camaro enthusiasts like myself find it hard to believe an EV version would be equal, or superior, to the driving experience offered with the current ICE version. Of course someone would buy it but saying no one wants an ICE Camaro is just as wrong. 24,652 people bought one last year. Did the cancellation of the 6th gen affirm your decision not to buy a Camaro?

Your posts are insightful but when it comes to GMs corporate strategy you're biased.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Camaro enthusiasts like myself find it hard to believe an EV version would be equal, or superior, to the driving experience offered with the current ICE version. Of course someone would buy it but saying no one wants an ICE Camaro is just as wrong. 24,652 people bought one last year. Did the cancellation of the 6th gen affirm your decision not to buy a Camaro?

Your posts are insightful but when it comes to GMs corporate strategy you're biased.

I think you missed the overall point...

The claim is that GM is killing off the Camaro because no one wants an EV Camaro. That's patently false in its own right.

The statement that no one wants an ICE Camaro was calling out the fact that GM is killing it off because there's no profit in it -as it is-. The sales numbers of the Camaro have consistently gotten worse since it was brought back into the market with the Gen5. It's well-loved by those that own them, but the greater market doesn't even really know it's there.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by ember1205

I think you missed the overall point...

The claim is that GM is killing off the Camaro because no one wants an EV Camaro. That's patently false in its own right.

The statement that no one wants an ICE Camaro was calling out the fact that GM is killing it off because there's no profit in it -as it is-. The sales numbers of the Camaro have consistently gotten worse since it was brought back into the market with the Gen5. It's well-loved by those that own them, but the greater market doesn't even really know it's there.

Nope. I didn't miss the point.

There isn't a large market for two door cars so making the Camaro available as an EV isn't top of the list. Especially because the Corvette exists. To say that no one wants an ICE Camaro is false as pointed out by the 20 something thousand people that purchased one last year. That's not a huge number but if Corvette sales were low gm would do something about it.

2010 was the peak of sales for the Gen 5/6 but it was also a long production year with deliveries starting in March of 2009. Plus pent up demand from the car being out of production since 2002. The Camaro beat the Mustang in sales 3 out of the 6 years the Gen 5 existed and prompted gm to go forward with Gen 6.

If there is a 7th generation it will be electric, offer no manual transmission and have a simulated exhaust note. It will be fast and expensive. I'm just not excited about that.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Nope. I didn't miss the point.

There isn't a large market for two door cars so making the Camaro available as an EV isn't top of the list. Especially because the Corvette exists. To say that no one wants an ICE Camaro is false as pointed out by the 20 something thousand people that purchased one last year. That's not a huge number but if Corvette sales were low gm would do something about it.

That tells me that you -did- miss the point. It wasn't a literal statement.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Bankruptcy was caused by a giant spike in gas prices which took a huge hit on FST sales. They lost $10 billion in cash flow as a result could no longer meet their obligations. Ford was in worse shape earlier and was able to funding before the economy tanked. When GM needed it there was no money to borrow. So bailout.



When the “heavy handed government” was involved in day to day operations, they asked GM where they made money. GM execs embarrassingly admitted Corvette and Full Size Trucks”. “Then why aren’t you doing new ones”? “We didn’t think you would want that”. “What we want is for you to make money”, replied the government. At the time, GM had skinnier the FST to a new grille and the mid engine C7 was a simple reskin or C6.5 as we called it. The C7 was a result of “government innervention”


Please don’t use the R word. Some find it offensive. Since you weren’t talking about ignition timing I’m sure you meant the insensitive term.

1st point. GM put themselves in the position of needing a bailout. None of the other automobile manufacturers did. At that time I thought they should have been allowed to go under. I still think so. The shareholders and through them the Board picked losers to run the company. They deserved to lose their investment and management deserved to lose their jobs.

2nd point. Just because the government said something doesn't make it true, in fact I would say the odds are the fact the government said it tends to mean it isn't true. Even more so when we're depending on second hand accounts.

3rd point. The 'r' word has been in common usage for quite some time. Just because some sensitive individuals have decided it offends them doesn't mean everyone has to stop using it. It means 'less advanced in physical, mental or social development than is usual for one's age.' In the context that TheEnthusiast used it, it seems to fit. Just my opinion.