[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

They're not trying to match the Camaro, at least not publically. The target for the 2012/2013 Boss 302 was the BMW M3 for example. The GT350 however was much more focused on the Camaro than ever before.

The real change and focus in performance started in 2008/2009 when the Challenger showed up and started cutting in on the Mustang's sales, the Camaro only enhanced that.

I just think they're trying (and brilliantly succeeding) at playing a global game and they're trying to adjust performance with that in mind.

this pretty much hit the nail on the head. you had the S197 which was at the time good enough. That's all it was just good enough, but it had no competition. Once competition showed up, Ford had to step up their game and really were very quick to make changes/updates.

Originally Posted by Mike502

Ford has mustang and Multimatic and that's it. Look @ the amount of races GM is winning compared with Ford. No contest @ all. GM has NASCAR, WC,IMSA and Indy cars. Where the hell is ford ?

Serious question why does anyone really even bring up racing anymore? For the most part most of those are so far removed from the cars they are based on I don't think the win on sunday sell on monday applies anymore...

I'm sure some like the IMSA and stuff like that has more trickle down effect on developing stuff, but NASCAR...that NASCAR Chevy SS has 0 in common with the SS Sedan

[Mike502]

Attend some IMSA races and stop by the car coral and see the enthusiasm. I'm not going to argue the fact. NASCAR and Indy car were just included as a series that GM has won championships in recently. Those two really have little effect on sales I agree. It's always been asked why Chevy or Ford bothers with nascar. Those tear out engines are used for vintage trans am races that's all I can think of. Those 1980's ford tube frame mustangs use the Roush/ Yates V/8's from nascar as an example.
The Camaro Z/28 and Boss 302 are basically the same engine off the showroom floor @ the Continental race series . The Z/28 won the series last year.
Road racing is on the comeback big time.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Mike502

Road racing is on the comeback big time.

It's really not anymore. It was for a while, but after Stevenson won the CTSCC GS championship for Chevy for the 2015 season..they took their ball and went home. They're either selling, or sold already, their Z/28.R's.
Multiple manufacturers have left the CTSCC and there are fewer varieties of cars.

Example:

After a successful season with the Z/28.R, Stevenson Motorsports is abandoning the Camaro and switched over to Audi in LMS. GS, where the B302, GT350R and Z/28.R were going at it has steadily shrunk. For 2016 you've got Ford, Porsche, Aston Martin and Nissan (I think).

Chevy doesn't have a presence in the GS class for 2016. It might in 2017 if they bring out a competition version of the Camaro, but we'll see.

Chevy is doing well in the LMGTE and GTLM however.

[bpang1234]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

No doubt they are actively using GM cars for a benchmark of performance now. Otherwise there wouldn't have already been an advancement of the next gen mustang forward a couple years immediately after the GEN6's now solid/proven numbers.

The bigger sentiment they will battle now is that GM is much further ahead in the realm of performance as a brand wide goal, with the Corvette now being a world class sport car rivaling the European supercars, hence the GT and it ridiculous high pricing. They don't want the failings of the mustang to be perceived as the same as what happened to the dodge name plates after the gas crunch in the 70's by having name plates that no long actually fit the segment they are in.

The one thing that they will always have on GM though is that women buy mustangs in a much higher proportion than men. Pop-culture wise the mustang will always have a leg up from having celebrity owners and music over the decades that gave the upperhand to the mustang. You can make a GM as fast as a saturn 5 rocket and the mustang will still sell strong.

Agree on all counts.

Ford has like 4 cars that I would consider "High Performance" in the GT350(R), Ford GT and Focus RS. The Fiesta ST is pretty good too.

GM has the CTS-V, CTS V-Sport, ATS-V, Corvette, SS and Camaro.

Mustang is fully embraced by pop-culture. Hell, when you got Vanilla Ice rapping a song specifically about your car, you have made it!

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by bpang1234

Agree on all counts.

Ford has like 4 cars that I would consider "High Performance" in the GT350(R), Ford GT and Focus RS. The Fiesta ST is pretty good too.

GM has the CTS-V, CTS V-Sport, ATS-V, Corvette, SS and Camaro.

Mustang is fully embraced by pop-culture. Hell, when you got Vanilla Ice rapping a song specifically about your car, you have made it!

The performance offeings from Ford and GM and excellent and offer a lot of choices, from hot hatches, to pony cars, to sport lux. However one segment abandoned by both that id love to see reintroduced are the sport trucks.

Don't get me wrong Raptor is awesome, but some of us just miss what trucks like the Lightning brought to the table.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

The performance offeings from Ford and GM and excellent and offer a lot of choices, from hot hatches, to pony cars, to sport lux. However one segment abandoned by both that id love to see reintroduced are the sport trucks.

Don't get me wrong Raptor is awesome, but some of us just miss what trucks like the Lightning brought to the table.

Yep...I miss those days too. Used to read "Sport Truck" magazine (now defunct) religiously. I have a 1997 Chevy S-10 with ZQ8 package. Would love to see a ZQ8 Chevy Colorado.

[huggercamaro21]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

Yep...I miss those days too. Used to read "Sport Truck" magazine (now defunct) religiously. I have a 1997 Chevy S-10 with ZQ8 package. Would love to see a ZQ8 Chevy Colorado.

Sierra or Silverado regular cab short bed with the 6.2 A8. Freaking yes please lol.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

The performance offeings from Ford and GM and excellent and offer a lot of choices, from hot hatches, to pony cars, to sport lux. However one segment abandoned by both that id love to see reintroduced are the sport trucks.

Don't get me wrong Raptor is awesome, but some of us just miss what trucks like the Lightning brought to the table.

Ford offered the tremor which was a sporty truck. Dodge is probably the closest simply because they offer the big v8 on a standard cab. I really don't get why all 3 can't slap the best v8 they have in a truck along with a slight drop and maybe paint. Could you imagine sb's with a lt4,super charged 5.0 or a hellcat!!!!!!

[SpookShow'84]

Originally Posted by bpang1234

Agree on all counts.

Ford has like 4 cars that I would consider "High Performance" in the GT350(R), Ford GT and Focus RS. The Fiesta ST is pretty good too.

GM has the CTS-V, CTS V-Sport, ATS-V, Corvette, SS and Camaro.

Mustang is fully embraced by pop-culture. Hell, when you got Vanilla Ice rapping a song specifically about your car, you have made it!

Don't forget Wilson Pickett and Mustang Sally, then you have all the movie stuff like Bullitt and Eleanor. Camaro doesn't have that.

The sport trucks were fun while they lasted but a modern sport car chassis totally antiquates them. 15 years ago the chassis weren't as drastically different in capability. If guys want to go fast in the 1/4 now in a truck, they go boosted diesel for cheap fun. I did see some spy shot of a Hellcat SUV. You never know, a person could run 12's in the Titanic if you gave it enough horsepower.

[SpeedIsLife]

yeah they're saying the Durango is getting the SRT treatment..either with the 392 or the Hellcat.

I'm guessing it'll be the Hellcat with a beefed up Jeep SRT drivetrain.

[kcpoloman]

Competition is good for they market. Makes companies strive to get you a better product for less than the other guys will.

[MovieGuy]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

With all due respect...how is the collector market for 80s F-bodies? Can you even find an 80's camaro anywhere other than a u-pull-it?. The Fox bodies lit a fire under the aftermarket ass that has burned til this day and you don't find fox bodies in decent condition cheap even now.

The F body began in 1994. My 2002 Firebird was an F body and it was a fantastic car.

[z28guy30]

F-Body began in 1967 and ended in 2002. Not 1994. 1994 was actually the second year of the 4th generation Camaro (LT1)