(UPDATE) 4000 miles and three broken drivers side intake rockers

[CrazyRED]

Originally Posted by Avenging Orange

Hope you get it sorted out, my friend. Sadly these kind of things happen......just sucks when its you.

Thanks. It does suck, but I have a good team of people here getting things done. One way or another we'll get it running like a top and screaming down the track

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by CrazyRED

The cam didn't look good when it came out, but I guess it's kinda hard to tell anything based on that after the fact of the rockers breaking because of all the metal that's flying around.

Everything going in everywhere is going to be new, the bottom end is gonna be cleaned out completely, gonna throw in some break in lube and then do three oil changes in the next 1000 miles. The first oil change will have around 20 or less miles on it.

Hopefully that gets everything out

A magnetic drain plug couldn't hurt either.

[CrazyRED]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

A magnetic drain plug couldn't hurt either.

Right! Strangely enough, I thought these things came with magnetic plugs from the factory

[christianchevell]

No had to buy a magnetic plug from the dealer...

[christianchevell]

A pic of the cam would be helpful when trying to decide which came first the chicken or the egg as there is no doubt damage to the lifters, and the cam and of course do not trust the pushrods.. rolling them on a perfectly flat surface shows distortions.... think the drain plug was like 20$, changing oil at three times in 1000k a little obsessive but yes it should be dumped right after tune, then driven racing oil br30 good for 400-500 miles then dump, then regular oil..I know it adds up that's three.... Some run driven racing ls30 like me some run amsoil, some run stock mobil...some run whatever is around , me I go with the pros...drivens recommended by every god of racing you can imagine like the makers of the cams the bearings the engine...etc

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by CrazyRED

Well, I wasn't able to get the engine pulled today, but I was able to go over the car with a fine tooth comb while it was on the lift. Everything looks to be in perfect condition, very little to no signs of wear or damage. Everything looks extremely legit to back up the 4000 easy miles claim.

That is, until you get to the engine and trans. As far as outside wear goes, it looks to be in good condition. However, the clean exterior gives way to some telling signs. Normally with stock engine and trans assembled in a plant there are inspection markings usually found on critical toque bolts and fasteners. This was something that was easily verified by looking at several other Camaros and Corvettes that were up on lifts.

My Camaro had inspection markings on every other critical torque point such as the diff and suspension components, but the engine and trans are completely void of any such marking.

This new revelation has me quite concerned as to what we are gonna find once we crack that block and pop off the bearing caps. I'm still hoping for a miracle and I'll find out that the engine looks perfect for a 4000 mile clock and that there has been no other damage done to the bottom end.

At this point I'm right on the fence. If there's nothing wrong, great! I'll put it all back together and enjoy my new upgraded badass Camaro. However, if there any more damage the price is going to start getting close to a figure that I would start thinking about a new built engine.

Anybody have some links of where to research some new badass engines

Check the block casting numbers. even though "numbers matching" isn't a thing anymore, they still vin match the block from the factory. between the cam and rockers, I'm wondering if perhaps the first owner might have pushed a rod through the block and replaced it, using a mix of new and old parts to put it back together. Maybe bought a cam used, used the original rockers and replaced push rods, etc. You could also have the ECM checked to see if there had been any kind of tune and/or re-flash on it.

[CrazyRED]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

A pic of the cam would be helpful when trying to decide which came first the chicken or the egg as there is no doubt damage to the lifters, and the cam and of course do not trust the pushrods.. rolling them on a perfectly flat surface shows distortions.... think the drain plug was like 20$, changing oil at three times in 1000k a little obsessive but yes it should be dumped right after tune, then driven racing oil br30 good for 400-500 miles then dump, then regular oil..I know it adds up that's three.... Some run driven racing ls30 like me some run amsoil, some run stock mobil...some run whatever is around , me I go with the pros...drivens recommended by every god of racing you can imagine like the makers of the cams the bearings the engine...etc

This has been the game plan pretty much word for word. I'll have pics of everything that comes out. The pushrods are all in perfect shape.

I'm not worried about going overboard on oil changes as $300 will be cheap insurance to keep from grenading the engine.

It hasn't been done yet but the bearing caps will be knocked off to see how they look as well.

I will definitely be buying a magnetic drain plug before everything goes back together. Does anybody know if there's a magnet in the bottom of the oil pan? I haven't got that far, but I'm hoping there's something there to prevent that carnage from going back up into the pickup tube.

[CrazyRED]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Check the block casting numbers. even though "numbers matching" isn't a thing anymore, they still vin match the block from the factory. between the cam and rockers, I'm wondering if perhaps the first owner might have pushed a rod through the block and replaced it, using a mix of new and old parts to put it back together. Maybe bought a cam used, used the original rockers and replaced push rods, etc. You could also have the ECM checked to see if there had been any kind of tune and/or re-flash on it.

I think that's what the plan is, to do a VIN match through the dealership.

The ECM has already been checked and it has never been flashed or tuned.

I was originally thinking that there may have been some parts replaced, but that doesn't explain the transmission. I think if it was anything the whole engine and transmission was replaced as one unit. I still don't understand the significance of the missing inspection marks though. Would somebody really be that thorough when replacing a motor that they scrub those marks off completely?

[CrazyRED]

UPDATE

Well, after pulling everything apart and cleaning everything up it seems the engine matches the car. There was and abnormally large amount of carbon build up on everything. The comment was made that they would expect to see less build up on an engine with more than 50,000 hard miles. There was no damage from the broken rockers, we got all the needle bearings and bearing cover metal out.

The only thing that we can figure is that the person who owned this car would use terrible gas and store the vehicle for long periods and then drive it with the old gas in it.

Today as we were pressing the brass bushings into the rockers we noticed that at least one of the rockers that had dropped the bearings was binding up when the brass got pushed in. So I'm thinking that the rockers were damaged during factory installation or they were a bad batch of rockers from the cast. It makes sense how there bearings failed that the rocker was not perfectly round when they pressed the bearings and that caused the premature failure by putting increased pressure at two points.

So the verdict as it sits now is that the engine was not properly cared for and was run with terrible gas and doubtful that it ever even had an oil change. It is now in brand new condition and I will run a couple of quick fluid changes through it. It should be fully assembled and on the dyno before the end of the week.

So unless anybody has proof otherwise, I'm declaring myself the lowest mileage rocker failure in the LS3 in the entire world!!!

[OrangeVert]

Originally Posted by CrazyRED

UPDATE

Well, after pulling everything apart and cleaning everything up it seems the engine matches the car. There was and abnormally large amount of carbon build up on everything. The comment was made that they would expect to see less build up on an engine with more than 50,000 hard miles. There was no damage from the broken rockers, we got all the needle bearings and bearing cover metal out.

The only thing that we can figure is that the person who owned this car would use terrible gas and store the vehicle for long periods and then drive it with the old gas in it.

Today as we were pressing the brass bushings into the rockers we noticed that at least one of the rockers that had dropped the bearings was binding up when the brass got pushed in. So I'm thinking that the rockers were damaged during factory installation or they were a bad batch of rockers from the cast. It makes sense how there bearings failed that the rocker was not perfectly round when they pressed the bearings and that caused the premature failure by putting increased pressure at two points.

So the verdict as it sits now is that the engine was not properly cared for and was run with terrible gas and doubtful that it ever even had an oil change. It is now in brand new condition and I will run a couple of quick fluid changes through it. It should be fully assembled and on the dyno before the end of the week.

So unless anybody has proof otherwise, I'm declaring myself the lowest mileage rocker failure in the LS3 in the entire world!!!

Interesting - thanks for the update!!

[InFiD3ViL]

Well then there is actually some good to come out of this mess!

Do you feel relieved that it is the original engine now? You don't have to worry about hunting anyone down or committing any felonies. Also, this gave you the opportunity to really examine your internals to be able to see the current state of your engine. No guessing needed.

Glad to hear this episode is finally wrapping up for you!

To the guy that sold you the car and didn't properly care for it?

[frankwjr]

Good news! FYI..when I did my brass trunnion upgrade I had similar experience. Some were hard to press out the old trunnion, some "almost fell out"..pressing the brass bushing in all required similar effort tho some a bit more..on those I notice a little brass shaving on the outside..I figured the trunnion inner edge was sharper than others...any hoot they all work....peace out...

[Ashen 6.2]

Originally Posted by CrazyRED

UPDATE

Well, after pulling everything apart and cleaning everything up it seems the engine matches the car. There was and abnormally large amount of carbon build up on everything. The comment was made that they would expect to see less build up on an engine with more than 50,000 hard miles. There was no damage from the broken rockers, we got all the needle bearings and bearing cover metal out.

The only thing that we can figure is that the person who owned this car would use terrible gas and store the vehicle for long periods and then drive it with the old gas in it.

Today as we were pressing the brass bushings into the rockers we noticed that at least one of the rockers that had dropped the bearings was binding up when the brass got pushed in. So I'm thinking that the rockers were damaged during factory installation or they were a bad batch of rockers from the cast. It makes sense how there bearings failed that the rocker was not perfectly round when they pressed the bearings and that caused the premature failure by putting increased pressure at two points.

So the verdict as it sits now is that the engine was not properly cared for and was run with terrible gas and doubtful that it ever even had an oil change. It is now in brand new condition and I will run a couple of quick fluid changes through it. It should be fully assembled and on the dyno before the end of the week.

So unless anybody has proof otherwise, I'm declaring myself the lowest mileage rocker failure in the LS3 in the entire world!!!

Great that you found all of the bearings and materials that went with it!

[CrazyRED]

Originally Posted by InFiD3ViL

Well then there is actually some good to come out of this mess!

Do you feel relieved that it is the original engine now? You don't have to worry about hunting anyone down or committing any felonies. Also, this gave you the opportunity to really examine your internals to be able to see the current state of your engine. No guessing needed.

Glad to hear this episode is finally wrapping up for you!

To the guy that sold you the car and didn't properly care for it?

Honestly I had come to grips with the possibility that I would be doing a complete engine swap, that's in the plans anyway so it would have just happened now instead of later. I do feel better that I wasn't taken advantage of though, nobody likes that feeling.

It was never gonna come to any stupidity, but if it had truly been a high mileage engine put in a car sold as a 4000 mile car I would have attempted legal action.

I don't think I blame the guy that sold me the car, he took good care of the outside and I think if he had owned it outside of winter he would have taken care of the engine and other fluids as well. He just didn't have it for more than 100 miles.

All in all I'm happy that I'll be back in the car very soon and as soon as I do a couple of fluid swaps I'll be at the track and I'm really looking forward to that.