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Old 01-28-2014, 07:51 PM   #201
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^, that may be true comrade...but follow the trend....the big dogs are beyond the reach of ordinary consumers, and, as of late they will forever escalate beyond that. Theres a distinct escalation in price with the increased level of R&D, technology, engineering and performance. The game has been upped, it's going to cost uber bucks to play going forward from this year onward. For whatever the reason one chooses to argue. The ZL1 was a steal at base 54,995.00. And the 1LE was even a better bargain. Spec HP rides are now riding into the sunset....unless you are one of the fortunate few to have expendable income.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:29 PM   #202
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With the Ford 2015 Mustang already producing the 2.3L/300hp(est)/300-Lb-ft(est), turbo DOHC 16 valve I-4 as an engine option, and a base (est) price of $24,000, Feb 2014 Motortrend issue, I can't imagine GM missing out on a niche in the market. Should hit dealerships what maybe as early as August this year. I'd bet GM doesn't want to miss out on what will look very attractive to the younger market share.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:01 PM   #203
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With the Ford 2015 Mustang already producing the 2.3L/300hp(est)/300-Lb-ft(est), turbo DOHC 16 valve I-4 as an engine option, and a base (est) price of $24,000, Feb 2014 Motortrend issue, I can't imagine GM missing out on a niche in the market. Should hit dealerships what maybe as early as August this year. I'd bet GM doesn't want to miss out on what will look very attractive to the younger market share.
...and there lies the rub... That was the downfall of the Gen 4 Camaro, and it's demise to extinction. And equally I ask..could history repeat itself once again?
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:21 PM   #204
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With the Ford 2015 Mustang already producing the 2.3L/300hp(est)/300-Lb-ft(est), turbo DOHC 16 valve I-4 as an engine option, and a base (est) price of $24,000, Feb 2014 Motortrend issue, I can't imagine GM missing out on a niche in the market. Should hit dealerships what maybe as early as August this year. I'd bet GM doesn't want to miss out on what will look very attractive to the younger market share.
Thats some good specs if you ask me. do a big turbo upgrade with bolt-ons and your easily in the 400whp club.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:28 PM   #205
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...and there lies the rub... That was the downfall of the Gen 4 Camaro, and it's demise to extinction. And equally I ask..could history repeat itself once again?
I wouldn't compare a Camaro or any Chevrolet from back then to what we have today. GM has engineered masterpieces worthy of all their names—SS, 1LE, ZL1, and of course Z/28. Do you really expect them to make the same masterpieces and then design a garbage heap with a 4-banger? You'd be both wrong and disappointingly ignorant to think that GM hasn't really thought out this possible outcome.

V8 guys, over here—why do you care? You guys are constantly posting threads about how real enthusiasts don't drive anything with less cylinders.

Everyone else, read this—what else are you going to drive? If you want an affordable performance car, you're settling already. You can't have Ferrari power and styling on a Malibu budget. Welcome to Camaro. This is where you buy a really nice car with a 300-horsepower V6 or possibly force-fed 4-cylinder that gives you satisfactory torque and beats competitors. Would you rather drive a 370Z? How does a Hyundai Genesis sound? No, if it were me looking at a new $25k performance car, it would be a Camaro, and if the Alpha platform, which is made for a 4-cylinder, delivers a lightweight performer with the Camaro name, I'll take it.

But the last time, it sucked—yes, it did. It isn't the '80s anymore. We've had advances since then, like fuel injection and heated seats. Stop pretending a fast 4-cylinder is the end of the world. If anything, this assures the future of the Camaro in a world hostile to V8s. Imagine if we could get 500 hp out of a turbo V6 and 400 hp out of a turbo I4. That day is coming very soon, and the technology may already be here. Nissan just announced a 3-cylinder—yes, a freaking 3-cylinder—with 400 ponies that's light enough to carry. Perhaps we should embrace GM's pioneering mentality with open arms and allow them to expand the Camaro name.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:33 PM   #206
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...my point is Blur...., playing off Normagene's post...is that the Mustang offered a cheaper, lower priced entry level priced ride back then to the Camaro. They sold more cars, the Camaro's cost too much and sold to a more income established older crowd than their counterpoint. It's been well documented, and that's what killed off the Camaro..besides the lack of upgrades and status quo Corporate thinking. The per capital income level and age of the buyers were widely seperate.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:38 PM   #207
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I wouldn't compare a Camaro or any Chevrolet from back then to what we have today. GM has engineered masterpieces worthy of all their names—SS, 1LE, ZL1, and of course Z/28. Do you really expect them to make the same masterpieces and then design a garbage heap with a 4-banger? You'd be both wrong and disappointingly ignorant to think that GM hasn't really thought out this possible outcome.

V8 guys, over here—why do you care? You guys are constantly posting threads about how real enthusiasts don't drive anything with less cylinders.

Everyone else, read this—what else are you going to drive? If you want an affordable performance car, you're settling already. You can't have Ferrari power and styling on a Malibu budget. Welcome to Camaro. This is where you buy a really nice car with a 300-horsepower V6 or possibly force-fed 4-cylinder that gives you satisfactory torque and beats competitors. Would you rather drive a 370Z? How does a Hyundai Genesis sound? No, if it were me looking at a new $25k performance car, it would be a Camaro, and if the Alpha platform, which is made for a 4-cylinder, delivers a lightweight performer with the Camaro name, I'll take it.

But the last time, it sucked—yes, it did. It isn't the '80s anymore. We've had advances since then, like fuel injection and heated seats. Stop pretending a fast 4-cylinder is the end of the world. If anything, this assures the future of the Camaro in a world hostile to V8s. Imagine if we could get 500 hp out of a turbo V6 and 400 hp out of a turbo I4. That day is coming very soon, and the technology may already be here. Nissan just announced a 3-cylinder—yes, a freaking 3-cylinder—with 400 ponies that's light enough to carry. Perhaps we should embrace GM's pioneering mentality with open arms and allow them to expand the Camaro name.


To those that hate the idea of a turbo 4 in a Camaro...Guess what? It's not meant to appeal to you,it's meant to appeal to people that have never even considered buying a Camaro before. You will still have a choice of Camaros with at least one V8 and as today with several HP ratings. I am also sure for us that prefer a V6 it will still be available too.
More choices mean more potential buyers. The more potential buyers will mean the car will remain profitable and in the Chevy lineup for a long time.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:41 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
I wouldn't compare a Camaro or any Chevrolet from back then to what we have today. GM has engineered masterpieces worthy of all their names—SS, 1LE, ZL1, and of course Z/28. Do you really expect them to make the same masterpieces and then design a garbage heap with a 4-banger? You'd be both wrong and disappointingly ignorant to think that GM hasn't really thought out this possible outcome.

V8 guys, over here—why do you care? You guys are constantly posting threads about how real enthusiasts don't drive anything with less cylinders.

Everyone else, read this—what else are you going to drive? If you want an affordable performance car, you're settling already. You can't have Ferrari power and styling on a Malibu budget. Welcome to Camaro. This is where you buy a really nice car with a 300-horsepower V6 or possibly force-fed 4-cylinder that gives you satisfactory torque and beats competitors. Would you rather drive a 370Z? How does a Hyundai Genesis sound? No, if it were me looking at a new $25k performance car, it would be a Camaro, and if the Alpha platform, which is made for a 4-cylinder, delivers a lightweight performer with the Camaro name, I'll take it.

But the last time, it sucked—yes, it did. It isn't the '80s anymore. We've had advances since then, like fuel injection and heated seats. Stop pretending a fast 4-cylinder is the end of the world. If anything, this assures the future of the Camaro in a world hostile to V8s. Imagine if we could get 500 hp out of a turbo V6 and 400 hp out of a turbo I4. That day is coming very soon, and the technology may already be here. Nissan just announced a 3-cylinder—yes, a freaking 3-cylinder—with 400 ponies that's light enough to carry. Perhaps we should embrace GM's pioneering mentality with open arms and allow them to expand the Camaro name.
Pretty much this!
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:44 PM   #209
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...you can pack alot of punch into 4 or 6 cyl engine with turbo's. They have been running race cars on sanctioned tracks for eons with great success. Times are a changing. Deep wallets will get the V8 power from here onward.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:50 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
I wouldn't compare a Camaro or any Chevrolet from back then to what we have today. GM has engineered masterpieces worthy of all their names—SS, 1LE, ZL1, and of course Z/28. Do you really expect them to make the same masterpieces and then design a garbage heap with a 4-banger? You'd be both wrong and disappointingly ignorant to think that GM hasn't really thought out this possible outcome.

V8 guys, over here—why do you care? You guys are constantly posting threads about how real enthusiasts don't drive anything with less cylinders.

Everyone else, read this—what else are you going to drive? If you want an affordable performance car, you're settling already. You can't have Ferrari power and styling on a Malibu budget. Welcome to Camaro. This is where you buy a really nice car with a 300-horsepower V6 or possibly force-fed 4-cylinder that gives you satisfactory torque and beats competitors. Would you rather drive a 370Z? How does a Hyundai Genesis sound? No, if it were me looking at a new $25k performance car, it would be a Camaro, and if the Alpha platform, which is made for a 4-cylinder, delivers a lightweight performer with the Camaro name, I'll take it.

But the last time, it sucked—yes, it did. It isn't the '80s anymore. We've had advances since then, like fuel injection and heated seats. Stop pretending a fast 4-cylinder is the end of the world. If anything, this assures the future of the Camaro in a world hostile to V8s. Imagine if we could get 500 hp out of a turbo V6 and 400 hp out of a turbo I4. That day is coming very soon, and the technology may already be here. Nissan just announced a 3-cylinder—yes, a freaking 3-cylinder—with 400 ponies that's light enough to carry. Perhaps we should embrace GM's pioneering mentality with open arms and allow them to expand the Camaro name.
This has been going on for ages, some people are too closed minded to accept it. my turbo cobalt would run laps around my V6 and its a 2.0L 4 banger and it gets better gas mileage. i loved the look on peoples faces when i beat them in their V8. im not hating at all but power is power no matter what the size of the motor. i love a V8, i have noting against it and the people who drive them. im just all about cars, i don't care what a person drives if he/she is all about cars then we cool.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:00 PM   #211
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....agreed, I don't want to hear about the Euro price per dollar comparison anymore to our cars and the performance VS what we get here. That's getting lame.....it worked for awhile, but it's getting old. Don't always buy into the rhetoric. The point is, we are going to have to face a price point between cylinders, MSRP, and performance whether we like it or not.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:25 PM   #212
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...yeah, I love Chevy, have so since the late sixties. Yes, I love Chevy high performance, that's all I ever wrenched, raced, or wrecked...my whole life. The Bowtie is getting very expensive, I understand the technology, engineering, comparisons to other markets and products. I'm a V8 Spec HP guy, and my gripe is that it's going over the head of the working class to the ubers from here on out. And we knew it was coming, and it was pretold. But that's not my history. It's the new world. And being old and accustomed to certain ways, change does not fit well, but it's understandable. And the giddy up and go is getting beyond the reach of it's base that created the market. Yes, there were super expensive exotic rides made over the ages, and everything is relative in price....I get that. But, like Walter Cronkite said....that's the way it is.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:26 PM   #213
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With the Ford 2015 Mustang already producing the 2.3L/300hp(est)/300-Lb-ft(est), turbo DOHC 16 valve I-4 as an engine option, and a base (est) price of $24,000, Feb 2014 Motortrend issue, I can't imagine GM missing out on a niche in the market. Should hit dealerships what maybe as early as August this year. I'd bet GM doesn't want to miss out on what will look very attractive to the younger market share.
I'm guessing we will see final power figures for that engine at over 310HP and over 310 TQ.

As an optional engine, I doubt you'll be able to snag the ecoboost 4 at 24,000...at least not until rebates start hitting those cars are model years end. The V6 will be the cheapo option. I'm thinking you'll have to fork over another couple grand for that engine and whatever other options Ford defaults in the car with that engine.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:35 PM   #214
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...one thing I can say about my area for years and years is seeing young girls mostly, and some young guys, driving new Mustangs as DD's. Only until recently, with the release of the 5th gen Camaro, have I seen a similar consumer group, more guys than girls...but to a lesser degree in total car volume. But it's an uptick.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:54 PM   #215
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Article has only Base Price: $24,000

Engines: 3.7L/305-hp/280-Lb-ft DOHC 24-valve V-6

2.3L/330 hp(est)/300-Lb-ft(est), turbo DOHC 16-valve I-4

5.0L/430-hp(est)/400-Lb-ft(est) DOHC 32-valve V-8

And here's what they say about the I-4:

"The 2.3 liter, twin-scroll, turbocharged direct-injection engine is the newest member of Ford's EcoBoost family. It promises more than 300 hp and will be the second-most-powerful engine in the 2015 Mustang lineup when the car arrives. The engine features a three-into-two intake design that will make it much more fuel-efficient than the 3.7-liter V-6. The lighter four-cylinder will also provide the best front-to-rear weight ratio, making it the most balanced."

On Sale: Fall 2014
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Old 01-29-2014, 03:54 AM   #216
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People think performance is strictly the result of cylinders and horsepower but it's a new game nowadays with the advances in technology and materials. The old standards are being replaced with new options that never existed before. A car that's light with a low drag coefficient doesn't need a monster V8 to perform. In the past Detroit overcame inefficient aerodynamics with brute force because gas was cheap and they could build V8's inexpensively with lots of power and torque. But times have changed and automakers have to as well.

Sleek, aerodynamic shapes that work with the wind instead of trying to force their way through it with lots of power can provide exciting performance with smaller more efficient engines. With new materials that are lighter and stronger than anything available before, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can come up with. We just need to vote and make sure our future isn't screwed over by control-freak politicians who want to take away our ability to even drive our vehicles. They want to control everything and we just sit inside as a passenger. Blech!
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