Camaro 1LE vs Mustang GT track pack (Motortrend)

[BlackMamba88]

I must get my hands on one
Saving up now and will be my next purchase

[doc7000]

There have been two comparisons between the BOSS 302 Mustang and 1LE Camaro and the 1LE Camaro I believe was about 2.3 seconds a lap faster at GingerMan. I think everyone is coming to the conclusion that the 1LE Camaro is faster then both the BOSS 302 and BOSS 302 LS. Though Ford fans or Ford apologist are using the excuse that Ford made for the simple fact that its baby with a stripped interior can't handle a 3,900 pound car with less horsepower.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by doc7000

There have been two comparisons between the BOSS 302 Mustang and 1LE Camaro and the 1LE Camaro I believe was about 2.3 seconds a lap faster at GingerMan. I think everyone is coming to the conclusion that the 1LE Camaro is faster then both the BOSS 302 and BOSS 302 LS. Though Ford fans or Ford apologist are using the excuse that Ford made for the simple fact that its baby with a stripped interior can't handle a 3,900 pound car with less horsepower.

LOL are you for real? The Boss 302 LS doesn't have a stripped interior, it has a rear seat delete brace. Otherwise it is an upgraded Base GT. Also the Mustang is a nearly 10 year old car with a solid rear axle, the fact that it can even beat the M3 is freaking amazing, I would expect a Camaro with a NEWER CHASSIS, IRS, and WIDER TYRES to out handle the Mustang. It's not like it's freaking rocket science here people...

Chevy is almost a generation late to the party with the 5th generation, it should perform better than the 5th generation Mustang they are however about on par (Quarter Mile going to the Mustang and Road Course going to the Camaro) (Both of course dependant on drivers).

[ThaCamaroKid]

Originally Posted by doc7000

There have been two comparisons between the BOSS 302 Mustang and 1LE Camaro and the 1LE Camaro I believe was about 2.3 seconds a lap faster at GingerMan. I think everyone is coming to the conclusion that the 1LE Camaro is faster then both the BOSS 302 and BOSS 302 LS. Though Ford fans or Ford apologist are using the excuse that Ford made for the simple fact that its baby with a stripped interior can't handle a 3,900 pound car with less horsepower.

+1,
I also checked the lap times for VIR and Willow, 1LE faster on both

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by doc7000

There have been two comparisons between the BOSS 302 Mustang and 1LE Camaro and the 1LE Camaro I believe was about 2.3 seconds a lap faster at GingerMan. I think everyone is coming to the conclusion that the 1LE Camaro is faster then both the BOSS 302 and BOSS 302 LS. Though Ford fans or Ford apologist are using the excuse that Ford made for the simple fact that its baby with a stripped interior can't handle a 3,900 pound car with less horsepower.

What does it matter if Ford doesn't even build the BOSS anymore? The fact is GM was too late getting a track Camaro ready so its pointless to argue against a car that isn't even built anymore.

[ThaCamaroKid]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

LOL are you for real? The Boss 302 LS doesn't have a stripped interior, it has a rear seat delete brace. Otherwise it is an upgraded Base GT. Also the Mustang is a nearly 10 year old car with a solid rear axle, the fact that it can even beat the M3 is freaking amazing, I would expect a Camaro with a NEWER CHASSIS, IRS, and WIDER TYRES to out handle the Mustang. It's not like it's freaking rocket science here people...

Chevy is almost a generation late to the party with the 5th generation, it should perform better than the 5th generation Mustang.

The 302 LS was a 47k+ car, I agree it was amazing it could beat an M3 BUT, if I am completely honest M3's are over-rated, They start out at 60k BASE price, they are heavy (3,700 lbs+) less power than a SS or a GT, and If I am completely honest I'd rather have Mustang GT, And I dont like the mustang at all , the M3 is more of a luxury/sport car now. Not a car people buy to drive fast, just to look good in, which is sad because it used to be a great car. 60k base price is Corvette Territory, I mean you can get a 580 hp ZL1 or 662 Horsepower GT500 for 5k less, and I think BOTH look better.

I am not saying the M3 and Boss 302 LS are terrible cars and should never be driven, I am just saying the 1LE and ZL1 are better, and it is undeniable, ( performance number wise ) it is just straight facts.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

The 302 LS was a 47k+ car, I agree it was amazing it could beat an M3 BUT, if I am completely honest M3's are over-rated, They start out at 60k BASE price, they are heavy (3,700 lbs+) less power than a SS or a GT, and If I am completely honest I'd rather have Mustang GT, And I dont like the mustang at all , the M3 is more of a luxury/sport car now. Not a car people buy to drive fast, just to look good in, which is sad because it used to be a great car. 60k base price is Corvette Territory, I mean you can get a 580 hp ZL1 or 662 Horsepower GT500 for 5k less, and I think BOTH look better.

I am not saying the M3 and Boss 302 LS are terrible cars and should never be driven, I am just saying the 1LE and ZL1 are better, and it is undeniable, ( performance number wise ) it is just straight facts.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that, they are pretty much even in performance, in real life not magazine tests, with a edge definitely going to the Mustang for the 1/4 Mile and the Camaro for the Road Course (of course this is assuming the Camaro's are either a 1LE or a ZL1). The ZL1 is only "so so" on a Drag Strip stock and the GT500 is only "so so" on a Track. Both Cars need upgrades to excel at what the other excels at.

and I've driven a M3, a Base GT and SS without 1LE would be beaten even in a Drag Race if the M3 driver knows how to launch, but yes they are a bit unimpressive as I understand compared to the M3's of yesteryear...

Just an added note: A Boss 302 LS will be worth something one day, a 1LE and ZL1 will not be as much so as they are mass production. If I recall only 750 were made, roughly, per year of production. All assuming people don't rack up milage, but their are many a moron that buys these cars thinking they are going to be collectors items in 20 years

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

What does it matter if Ford doesn't even build the BOSS anymore? The fact is GM was too late getting a track Camaro ready so its pointless to argue against a car that isn't even built anymore.

LMAO so if GM just kills the Camaro before the next Mustang gets here then we can use that same logic......

Ford was too late to the party and the car isn't built anymore....

However it is ok because there are BOSS 302 vs 1LE Camaro comparisons out there and the BOSS 302 LS is simple a good deal slower then the 1LE.

People can try to argue about the choices that Ford MADE with the Mustang and now say after the fact well no duh the Mustang lost.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by doc7000

LMAO so if GM just kills the Camaro before the next Mustang gets here then we can use that same logic......

Ford was too late to the party and the car isn't built anymore....

However it is ok because there are BOSS 302 vs 1LE Camaro comparisons out there and the BOSS 302 LS is simple a good deal slower then the 1LE.

People can try to argue about the choices that Ford MADE with the Mustang and now say after the fact well no duh the Mustang lost.

NO They are called Pony Car's after the Mustang so even if the Camaro was killed off (Again) you couldn't use that argument because Ford CREATED the SEGMENT.

I for one am not arguing that the 1LE/SS is a Boss Killer on a Road Course, but it really doesn't matter anyway since that segment is now gone since Ford took the Boss out of Production the 1LE/SS doesn't compete against anything from Ford. I would probably take a 1LE over a Boss (Mostly because I'm keeping my Shelby, and I wouldn't trade my SS for a ZL1 as a track car over the 1LE/SS, I could make my SS handle better for cheaper than trading in anyway) regardless...

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

NO They are called Pony Car's after the Mustang so even if the Camaro was killed off (Again) you couldn't use that argument because Ford CREATED the SEGMENT.

I for one am not arguing that the 1LE/SS is a Boss Killer on a Road Course, but it really doesn't matter anyway since that segment is now gone since Ford took the Boss out of Production the 1LE/SS doesn't compete against anything from Ford. I would probably take a 1LE over a Boss (Mostly because I'm keeping my Shelby, and I wouldn't trade my SS for a ZL1 as a track car over the 1LE/SS, I could make my SS handle better for cheaper than trading in anyway) regardless...

You really do not see the huge flaw in your argument.....

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by doc7000

You really do not see the huge flaw in your argument.....

Point it out, then

GM was late to the party with the 1LE, you cannot create sales competition for a car that is no longer made. The 1LE was/is Chevys answer to the Boss but it doesn't matter because the sales segment for the Boss doesn't exist anymore. The 1LE is the only current pony car to fill that segment...

[b4z]

Originally Posted by tramtwo

only if the goat is a judge....

Ive seen those in person. The build quality is true OEM. Like them way more than I thought I would.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

Not to be rude, just straight foward, whats the excuse for the boss 302 LS?

Ford put the package together with tire size stagger that only makes sense in a normally aspirated car when it is also being sold on appearance. And when you crutch the resulting inherent understeer from the tire stagger with roll stiffness distribution and other suspension tuning to "make the numbers" you're covering an understeer tendency all the time with oversteer from something else some of the time and making the car a little trickier to drive.

No autocrosser staggers tire sizes in a front engine rear drive car, never mind by 30mm worth of section width. Neither did Chevy with the 1LE. All that does is throw away grip that could have been.

You don't suppose that the SS's tire size stagger had anything to do with the Mustang GT's getting the handling nod over it in all of the earlier ponycar comparos now, do you?

Originally Posted by doc7000

There have been two comparisons between the BOSS 302 Mustang and 1LE Camaro and the 1LE Camaro I believe was about 2.3 seconds a lap faster at GingerMan. I think everyone is coming to the conclusion that the 1LE Camaro is faster then both the BOSS 302 and BOSS 302 LS. Though Ford fans or Ford apologist are using the excuse that Ford made for the simple fact that its baby with a stripped interior can't handle a 3,900 pound car with less horsepower.

It's a little more complicated than power to weight, but it is what it is.

I am a little surprised that the Boss didn't put up a better showing, though I haven't chased down any of the reading material to find any hints. But I am convinced that for some odd reason Ford went down the wrong path and crutched it as best they could.

What can't be denied is that eight years of S197 Mustang and three years of C5 production went by before Chevy got there. That's an eternity, so the 1LE absolutely had to produce (doubt we'd have heard of it yet had the 1LE not delivered).


Norm

[ParisTNDude]

You know, Motor Trend always minimizes a Camaro win over the Mustang. Do you think, for even a minute there weren't a hundred Boss 302 owners who wouldn't have loaned their Mustang to Motor Trend for a feature article? None of them would have guessed at the trouncing their car would have received.

A Camaro 1LE win over a Mustang GT was kinda....expected, but had a Camaro, same day same track, trounced a Boss 302, that would be devastating for Ford, and MT wouldn't do that.

Motor Trend's obvious tendency to favor Ford has been clear for years. Corvette against anything, as an example, loses because of it's seats despite it's huge performance advantage.

Or, why haven't they tested the 1LE against an M3?? I'm waiting for the test of a 427 Z28 against a GT500. From what I've seen, the 1/4 mile match-up might be pretty interesting between these two cars.