Don't panic, I don't have a credible source but....

SnakeEyeSS · 05-06-2019, 02:18 PM

Hope it is BS, but for you guys in test states, and I know it sounds like Chicken Little stuff:
Anyone hear that by 2021 MY there will be software in the CAN system so that if a tune or software modification is installed, and the car is run through smog, the smog test will fail due to a new system where the car and smog test communicate, and the car will fail the test if there is any unauthorized/non OEM tinkering. Cars already have a flash counter so it sounds like this is some add on to that or something. I think sounded like the cars "computer" will keep track, and even if the tune or modification is removed, it will always show a fail while that CANBUS is still in the car. Sounded like this is a way manufacturers are fighting back since losing the modifying court case.

cellsafemode · 05-06-2019, 02:54 PM

Emissions testing that relies on just the car's emissions sensors/computer - this makes sense to no longer trust the pollution results if unauthorized modifications to the sensors/computer or otherwise emissions system is done.

Though, that should just mean that you get the sniffer test at the tailpipe. Maybe get charged the difference in cost (assuming you're not paying for the entire emissions test already) and allow you to pass or fail based on actual measurements.

I would not doubt such ECU changes being implemented in the near future. I also doubt states will make the fallback to the sniffer test, and instead simply force you to stay stock. But the trend seems to be everyone leasing and eventually just falling back to renting rides instead of owning a vehicle so this wont really impact a significant portion of the public anyway (read: enthusiasts).

MackSteelPrivateEye · 05-06-2019, 03:43 PM

I'm sweating bullets.

Just kidding.

Number 3 · 05-06-2019, 05:51 PM

Considering the VW issue that started the whole dieselgate was based on software that tricked the car into a different running condition when something was plugged into the OBDII port, this wouldn’t be a surprise.

Gunkk · 05-06-2019, 07:07 PM

They could do all manner of nasty things like include the flash counter in the checksum hash for the various modules, call home to tell mama-GM on you, send the EPA an email with GPS coords so they can bust the shop that flashed it...

Get your tin foil hats ready!

Need4Camaro · 05-06-2019, 07:47 PM

Buy a new PCM.
Remove the Factory PCM
Leave the Factory PCM STOCK
Flash the NEW PCM to work with the vehicle
Tune the new PCM
Enjoy the ride
When emissions test comes up, Swap to the old factory untuned PCM
Pass emissions
swap back the NEW PCM.

only problem is that might not turn out too well for cars with heads, cams or F.I..

The age of automotive performance is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway at this point.

Number 3 · 05-06-2019, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunkk

They could do all manner of nasty things like include the flash counter in the checksum hash for the various modules, call home to tell mama-GM on you, send the EPA an email with GPS coords so they can bust the shop that flashed it...

Get your tin foil hats ready!

Doesn’t matter if they tell GM or not. You would have voided your warranty. GM would find it when the dealer submitted the PCM snapshot for warrant approval. It’s void either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Buy a new PCM.
Remove the Factory PCM
Leave the Factory PCM STOCK
Flash the NEW PCM to work with the vehicle
Tune the new PCM
Enjoy the ride
When emissions test comes up, Swap to the old factory untuned PCM
Pass emissions
swap back the NEW PCM.

only problem is that might not turn out too well for cars with heads, cams or F.I..

The age of automotive performance is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway at this point.

This may get you by an emissions check but this will void your warranty and GM will find out when the dealer submits the snapshot.

Vtor_ZL1 · 05-06-2019, 09:34 PM

Or mileage in cluster is not same as mileage in the computer.

Many ways to cheat, not many ways to get away with it.

Need4Camaro · 05-06-2019, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Doesn’t matter if they tell GM or not. You would have voided your warranty. GM would find it when the dealer submitted the PCM snapshot for warrant approval. It’s void either way.

This may get you by an emissions check but this will void your warranty and GM will find out when the dealer submits the snapshot.

By the time you're planning to tune the PCM to begin with you already don't care about warranty.

Infamus · 05-07-2019, 02:31 PM

Just more biz for the piggyback tunners. Yea not as good as a custom tune but undetectable.

Michael2000 · 05-07-2019, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Buy a new PCM.
Remove the Factory PCM
Leave the Factory PCM STOCK
Flash the NEW PCM to work with the vehicle
Tune the new PCM
Enjoy the ride
When emissions test comes up, Swap to the old factory untuned PCM
Pass emissions
swap back the NEW PCM.

only problem is that might not turn out too well for cars with heads, cams or F.I..

The age of automotive performance is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway at this point.

GM can tell if this has been done, and can void warranty.

DorkMissile · 05-08-2019, 05:59 AM

First off - one has to understand that if you are going to mod your engine, you are surrendering your warranty on that engine. If your plan is to mod your engine with the factory warranty as your contingency plan, then you are 1000% liable without shadow of a doubt.

Understand with how the system works - GM makes the dealer "make the call" on whether the claim is under warranty or not. However, on the big ticket repairs (a trans, rear end, short block, etc....) the dealer will order up the parts, fix the car, and THEN GM will come in and audit the repair to determine if it was truly a 100% valid claim. If not, they will not pay the dealer. The dealer has no intent on giving you an engine for free, so you will end up in a scenario where your car will be held hostage until YOU pay the bill (and the dealer is the most expensive place to get one) or you will be working with the court system and the dealer's lawyer.

Modding your engine, hurting it, covering up the mods and taking it back to the dealer is just you trying to screw the dealer, not GM.

I have been on one level or another of the car scene since the early 90s, and the whole time there has been the "sky is falling" crowd that proclaims the future will be worse than the present. Back in the days of the first JET EFI chips and throttle body injector swaps I heard the old guys say "they just went to computer's and FI to keep you from modifying anything".

Want to know the truth? GM DOESNT CARE. Do you think the people who made your BigMac care how, where, and how fast you eat it? NO. Its your car, go do with it what you want. They just don't want to pay the bill if you decide to screw it up.

Unfortunately it is going to be the CAFE standards that will totally isolate people from being able to change / mod things on their cars. Eventually Washington is going to hold the OEMs responsible for leaving the cars and their software in a state of "modifiable" and this whole thing will come to a screeching halt.

Lazerbrainz2k3 · 05-08-2019, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

The age of automotive performance is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway at this point.

Regulations and corporate liability might be making aftermarket automotive performance a thing of the past, and that's unfortunate. But looking at what we can get factory stock with a manufacturer's warranty these days, I'd hesitate to say automotive performance in general is going away.

ctrlz · 05-08-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Considering the VW issue that started the whole dieselgate was based on software that tricked the car into a different running condition when something was plugged into the OBDII port...

Not exactly how the VW cheat worked. A bit more clever than that.
During emissions standards tests, cars are placed on a chassis equipped with a dynamometer, which measures the power output of the engine. The vehicle follows a precisely defined speed profile that tries to mimic real driving on an urban route with frequent stops. The conditions of the test are both standardized and public. This essentially makes it possible for manufacturers to intentionally alter the behavior of their vehicles during the test cycle. The code found in Volkswagen vehicles checks for a number of conditions associated with a driving test, such as distance, speed and even the position of the wheel. If the conditions are met, the code directs the onboard computer to activate emissions curbing mechanism when those conditions were met.

05-06-2019, 02:18 PM	#1
SnakeEyeSS Drives: Camaro 2SS & ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 857	Don't panic, I don't have a credible source but.... Hope it is BS, but for you guys in test states, and I know it sounds like Chicken Little stuff: Anyone hear that by 2021 MY there will be software in the CAN system so that if a tune or software modification is installed, and the car is run through smog, the smog test will fail due to a new system where the car and smog test communicate, and the car will fail the test if there is any unauthorized/non OEM tinkering. Cars already have a flash counter so it sounds like this is some add on to that or something. I think sounded like the cars "computer" will keep track, and even if the tune or modification is removed, it will always show a fail while that CANBUS is still in the car. Sounded like this is a way manufacturers are fighting back since losing the modifying court case. __________________ 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Bright Yellow NPP MRC 2023 Camaro ZL1 A10 Radiant Red

05-06-2019, 05:51 PM	#4
Number 3 Hail to the King baby! Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 12,172 View My Garage	Considering the VW issue that started the whole dieselgate was based on software that tricked the car into a different running condition when something was plugged into the OBDII port, this wouldn’t be a surprise. __________________ "Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley

05-06-2019, 09:34 PM	#8
Vtor_ZL1 Who Needs to KNOW? Drives: 18 ZLE Join Date: May 2018 Location: Left Side of the Moon Posts: 1,771	Or mileage in cluster is not same as mileage in the computer. Many ways to cheat, not many ways to get away with it. __________________ ing for grip. Are you in the NY/NJ/PA/CT region? Join us for autox fun at MetLife Stadium. HUGE lots, tons of runs. http://www.motorsportsne.com/

05-08-2019, 05:59 AM	#12
DorkMissile Drives: 18 1SS 1LE HyperBlue Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 612	First off - one has to understand that if you are going to mod your engine, you are surrendering your warranty on that engine. If your plan is to mod your engine with the factory warranty as your contingency plan, then you are 1000% liable without shadow of a doubt. Understand with how the system works - GM makes the dealer "make the call" on whether the claim is under warranty or not. However, on the big ticket repairs (a trans, rear end, short block, etc....) the dealer will order up the parts, fix the car, and THEN GM will come in and audit the repair to determine if it was truly a 100% valid claim. If not, they will not pay the dealer. The dealer has no intent on giving you an engine for free, so you will end up in a scenario where your car will be held hostage until YOU pay the bill (and the dealer is the most expensive place to get one) or you will be working with the court system and the dealer's lawyer. Modding your engine, hurting it, covering up the mods and taking it back to the dealer is just you trying to screw the dealer, not GM. I have been on one level or another of the car scene since the early 90s, and the whole time there has been the "sky is falling" crowd that proclaims the future will be worse than the present. Back in the days of the first JET EFI chips and throttle body injector swaps I heard the old guys say "they just went to computer's and FI to keep you from modifying anything". Want to know the truth? GM DOESNT CARE. Do you think the people who made your BigMac care how, where, and how fast you eat it? NO. Its your car, go do with it what you want. They just don't want to pay the bill if you decide to screw it up. Unfortunately it is going to be the CAFE standards that will totally isolate people from being able to change / mod things on their cars. Eventually Washington is going to hold the OEMs responsible for leaving the cars and their software in a state of "modifiable" and this whole thing will come to a screeching halt. __________________ 2018 1SS 1LE / HBM - ECS Novi 1500 S/C Tuned by Carl @ CJ Tunes

05-06-2019, 02:54 PM	#2
cellsafemode Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: California Posts: 3,491	Emissions testing that relies on just the car's emissions sensors/computer - this makes sense to no longer trust the pollution results if unauthorized modifications to the sensors/computer or otherwise emissions system is done. Though, that should just mean that you get the sniffer test at the tailpipe. Maybe get charged the difference in cost (assuming you're not paying for the entire emissions test already) and allow you to pass or fail based on actual measurements. I would not doubt such ECU changes being implemented in the near future. I also doubt states will make the fallback to the sniffer test, and instead simply force you to stay stock. But the trend seems to be everyone leasing and eventually just falling back to renting rides instead of owning a vehicle so this wont really impact a significant portion of the public anyway (read: enthusiasts).

05-06-2019, 03:43 PM	#3
MackSteelPrivateEye Banned Drives: 6 on the Flo' Super Sport Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: md Posts: 1,925	I'm sweating bullets. Just kidding.

05-06-2019, 07:07 PM	#5
Gunkk Thank you Al Oppenheiser! Drives: Red Hot A10 ZL1 Convertible Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 4,978 View My Garage	They could do all manner of nasty things like include the flash counter in the checksum hash for the various modules, call home to tell mama-GM on you, send the EPA an email with GPS coords so they can bust the shop that flashed it... Get your tin foil hats ready!

05-06-2019, 07:47 PM	#6
Need4Camaro Drives: '17 Camaro 2SS & '99 Camaro Z28 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,836	Buy a new PCM. Remove the Factory PCM Leave the Factory PCM STOCK Flash the NEW PCM to work with the vehicle Tune the new PCM Enjoy the ride When emissions test comes up, Swap to the old factory untuned PCM Pass emissions swap back the NEW PCM. only problem is that might not turn out too well for cars with heads, cams or F.I.. The age of automotive performance is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway at this point.

05-07-2019, 02:31 PM	#10
Infamus Drives: 2018 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: FL Posts: 345	Just more biz for the piggyback tunners. Yea not as good as a custom tune but undetectable.

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