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Old 06-23-2014, 08:06 PM   #99
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I call BS on the I-4 (LTG Ecotec?) -- I cannot imagine many buying any -- what is this now, a Cobalt Camaro?! Why would GM drop from 323 HP to 272 HP (based one the ATS offering: http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-sport-sedan.html ) for a base model, thereby downgrading it?!

Instead would imagine we will see the twin-turbo V6 make its debut on the Camaro, ala Cadillac ATS Vsport, along with a lower power V6... The two DI LT-engines are obvious choices...

Given the incremental power bumps GM likes to do from model year to model year and the nine different outputs for the LFX (from 300 hp to 323 hp), I wouldn't be highly surprised to find the 2.0 turbo for the Camaro to get a nice power bump from 272 (I think Opel has even bumped the LTG to around 300 hp already).

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No, well then tell me why it makes sense in an ATS Vsport, which is also on Alpha, which the 6th Gen will be too?
Because it's Cadillac, and the auto mags have led average Joe Consumer to think that DOHC is vastly superior to OHV. That and the TT3.6 probably looks more fuel efficient on paper.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:17 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
Why would GM drop from 323 HP to 272 HP (based one the ATS offering: http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-sport-sedan.html ) for a base model, thereby downgrading it?!
Because GM is also dropping Camaro's weight and size.

LTG doesn't work with the 5th gen because the 5th gen is overweight. That's what happens when you're forced to build a sports coupe on a full size sedan platform.

Alpha was engineered with weight savings in mind. That makes the concept of a turbo 4 a much better proposition.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:18 PM   #101
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A 300HP turbo I4, a 450 HP twin turbo V6, a 500HP V8, and a 650 HP SC V8. Would make a pretty good lineup for the C6 Camaro.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:18 PM   #102
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No, well then tell me why it makes sense in an ATS Vsport, which is also on Alpha, which the 6th Gen will be too?
Because, as far as I know, the ATS isn't getting the LT1. The LF3 is basically the LT1 for Cadillac.

What is the benefit of the LF3 in the Camaro?
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:22 PM   #103
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Lightbulb

Interesting, I just found that the 300 HP turbo I4 is true and reportedly confirmed:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...NEWS/140229850


and on point #2 Hmm...

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Originally Posted by oklapike View Post
Given the incremental power bumps GM likes to do from model year to model year and the nine different outputs for the LFX (from 300 hp to 323 hp), I wouldn't be highly surprised to find the 2.0 turbo for the Camaro to get a nice power bump from 272 (I think Opel has even bumped the LTG to around 300 hp already).

Because it's Cadillac, and the auto mags have led average Joe Consumer to think that DOHC is vastly superior to OHV. That and the TT3.6 probably looks more fuel efficient on paper.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:28 PM   #104
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This is exactly what I've been thinking GM would do. It lines up nicely with the competition both on the domestic and foreign sides. This should give GM some significant latitude in performance comparisons across markets, too, provided they take sub-SS performance seriously.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:28 PM   #105
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Lightbulb

Well CTS-V is coming soon -- LT4 for sure, and there have been some rumblings of an ATS-V -- time will tell...


I would need to see the specs of an LF3 including weight, etc., someone posted saying it's pretty heavy, but I have always wondered why a top-dog V6 was not offered. i.e. why do you have to only offer a 1LE/ZL1 with all the aero goodies, offer a balls-out V6 too! Why not.

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Because, as far as I know, the ATS isn't getting the LT1. The LF3 is basically the LT1 for Cadillac.

What is the benefit of the LF3 in the Camaro?
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:30 PM   #106
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Well CTS-V is coming soon -- LT4 for sure, and there have been some rumblings of an ATS-V -- time will tell...


I would need to see the specs of an LF3 including weight, etc., someone posted saying it's pretty heavy, but I have always wondered why a top-dog V6 was not offered. i.e. why do you have to only offer a 1LE/ZL1 with all the aero goodies, offer a balls-out V6 too! Why not.
That's what I'm hoping GM does. By having available performance on the V6, even if only offered as Chevrolet Performance aftermarket offerings or dealer-installed accessories, it opens the LT trim to being taken seriously as an import-fighter at exactly the right price point.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:37 PM   #107
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Interesting, I just found that the 300 HP turbo I4 is true and reportedly confirmed:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...NEWS/140229850


and on point #2 Hmm...
What I don't recall for certain is if Opel's 300 hp turbo is based on the LTG or another engine. Point is though, GM can do a production turbo four with 300 hp. Should be plenty to move a car that's (hopefully) under 3450 lbs curb weight.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:53 PM   #108
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I call BS on the I-4 (LTG Ecotec?) -- I cannot imagine many buying any -- what is this now, a Cobalt Camaro?! Why would GM drop from 323 HP to 272 HP?!

...[/IMG]
Look up 0-60 times for a ATS i4 turbo vs. a Camaro V6.

I think you're going to get a surprise.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:54 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oklapike View Post
What I don't recall for certain is if Opel's 300 hp turbo is based on the LTG or another engine. Point is though, GM can do a production turbo four with 300 hp. Should be plenty to move a car that's (hopefully) under 3450 lbs curb weight.
Even if the car heavier than that, it will benchmark against the EcoBoost Mustang. I've never known GM to intentionally offer an inferior product against a direct performance competitor.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:59 PM   #110
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Look up 0-60 times for a ATS i4 turbo vs. a Camaro V6.

I think you're going to get a surprise.
Let's see:

- nearly as much peak torque available from 3000 RPM* earlier and

- 300+ lb weight advantage?

No surprise here.

* 2015 ATS coupe offers 295 lb-ft starting from 3000 RPM, not 260 ft-lb from 1700 RPM, even so...
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Even if the car heavier than that, it will benchmark against the EcoBoost Mustang. I've never known GM to intentionally offer an inferior product against a direct performance competitor.
That was rough guess based on the ATS coupe's weight, I hope a 6th gen Camaro with the turbo four isn't even that heavy, but I can't imagine it'd be more than 3450.

Last edited by oklapike; 06-23-2014 at 09:07 PM. Reason: added quote and updated numbers
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:02 PM   #111
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Look up 0-60 times for a ATS i4 turbo vs. a Camaro V6.

I think you're going to get a surprise.
Malibu 2LTZ or 3LT is purported to have 0-60 time quicker than Camaro V6/A6. I own one of each, and the Malibu is surprisingly quick!
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:07 PM   #112
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Well CTS-V is coming soon -- LT4 for sure, and there have been some rumblings of an ATS-V -- time will tell...


I would need to see the specs of an LF3 including weight, etc., someone posted saying it's pretty heavy, but I have always wondered why a top-dog V6 was not offered. i.e. why do you have to only offer a 1LE/ZL1 with all the aero goodies, offer a balls-out V6 too! Why not.
Cadillac ATS competes against turbo'd European Entry-Luxury vehicles: BMW 3/Audi A4 etc. Having the LF3 against those sorts of cars makes for good marketing and good dynamics against ITS competition.

Stuffing more weight in the nose of a Camaro for roughly the same performance numbers as an LT1 simply adds co$t & complexity against competitors (Stang/Challenger) who don't have anything comparable. The ONLY upside: mpg...which, at this moment, is NOT an imperative, but MAY be soon. If the Mustang got the EcoBoost V6, as well, then things might get interesting.

Who's going to blink first?
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