[MyNameIs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

This “pathetic” CEO just keeps piling on $10 Billion annual profits……year after year after year.

Please do some research on the grid. Even just a couple of Google searches. IF 100% of vehicle sales are EV by 2030 (and this won’t be the case). The grid will do just fine. And for all cars to be EV, assuming 100% of sales are EVs by 2030, it will be 2050 by then. Do you really assume EVs can’t work because in the next 25 years no on will improve the electrical grid? Seriously?

We can't even close our borders. You really think they will upgrade our grid?? When is this supposed to take place?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

We can't even close our borders. You really think they will upgrade our grid?? When is this supposed to take place?

Yes because they already are.

The other fallacy in this is people think it needs to be done tomorrow. It doesn’t.

So do I think he grid will be capable in 2050? Yes, easily. But as MartinJim’s is trying to point out, we might be 50% EVs by that point.

So think of it like this. There are something like 250 million cars on the road in the US. IF and a big if, you had 100% of sales EVs in 2035. It would take almost 20 years to be 100% EV. Can the electric grid development keep up with that pace? I think so.

The OEMs are not responding to any EV mandate. They are responding to emissions mandates. And ICE has run its course. The cost for even small incremental improvements is ginormous. GM’s 2.0T has an indexing cam that is a wonder of engineering. Rumor has it that it was $800 piece cost for less than 1/2 mpg. That is insane and can’t continue.

And the border is a government issue. Right now the grid is a business issue.

But, to your point, our local power company hasn’t brought the new Electrify America charging stations up and there are 6 sharpers ready to go. But that is a very local issue of not the “grid”, but power companies simply running cable and keeping up. 😉

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

We can't even close our borders. You really think they will upgrade our grid?? When is this supposed to take place?

You do realize that the people responsible for closing borders and the people responsible for upgrading the grid are two wildly different groups of people, right? This is like being pissed off at the Los Angeles Dodgers because the Detroit Lions beat the Los Angeles Rams.

Power companies across the country are working on upgrading the grid at the same time as transitioning to cleaner sources of power. But since we are talking about 50 states and multiple power companies per state, the rate of improvement varies from location to location.

For example, In Florida… Florida has been making investments in its electric grid for years. A notable initiative that exemplifies the state’s commitment to grid resilience and sustainability is the North Florida Resiliency Connection. Developed by Florida Power & Light, this state-of-the-art transmission line stretches 176 miles and aims to improve the grid’s resilience while accommodating renewable energy resources. The North Florida Resiliency Connection strengthens the electric grid and promotes the integration of clean energy sources, reducing carbon emissions and supporting sustainable development.

And federal funding will enhance Florida’s system.

The Fort Pierce Utilities Authority (FPUA) was awarded a grant of $5.8 million in this most recent round of funding by the GRIP program. This funding will enable FPUA to enhance resilience and modernize the Fort Pierce electric grid.

FPUA’s grant-funded projects include upgrading substation transformers to meet growing electric demand, replacing distribution transformers for modernization, upgrading a substation to a ring bus configuration for improved automation, and installing mounted reclosers to reduce outage frequency and duration. These initiatives enable FPUA to provide reliable electric service, even during unexpected outages, extreme weather events, and natural disasters.

[Evergreen6]

I'm not even sure how we got on the subject of closing borders since this is a discussion about EV's. But while we're here it's worth pointing out that it's actually CONGRESS that has to implement border policy.

There are 110,000,000 (one hundred ten million) more people living in the US now than there was around 1980. No, not all of them are immigrants. Does anyone think the grid wasn't "upgraded" over that time to accommodate that many more people using electricity?

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

I'm not even sure how we got on the subject of closing borders since this is a discussion about EV's. But while we're here it's worth pointing out that it's actually CONGRESS that has to implement border policy.

There are 110,000,000 (one hundred ten million) more people living in the US now than there was around 1980. No, not all of them are immigrants. Does anyone think the grid wasn't "upgraded" over that time to accommodate that many more people using electricity?

Some people here think America is going to be stuck with the same grid 50 years into the future. Apparently we don't have enough smart Americans capable of upgrading our grid. It's a shame so many people here have no faith in American ingenuity.


As for the border closing comments, this is why EVERY electric Camaro thread ends up getting locked. It goes straight to politics and there ends up being 2 to 3 members banned because they can't help inserting politics and/or sexism into every comment.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Some people here think America is going to be stuck with the same grid 50 years into the future. Apparently we don't have enough smart Americans capable of upgrading our grid. It's a shame so many people here have no faith in American ingenuity.


As for the border closing comments, this is why EVERY electric Camaro thread ends up getting locked. It goes straight to politics and there ends up being 2 to 3 members banned because they can't help inserting politics and/or sexism into every comment.

Can’t win on facts? Bring up politics and resort to insults. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[90503]

FWIW....Charging at home, in a garage, etc., is all well and fine and the most convenient.

But in case you haven't noticed, home rates for electricity are usually on a tiered basis. Different time of day, different price. The priciest (for me) is between the hours of 4pm to 9pm. Mid price 9pm to 8am. Least expensive, 8am to 4pm. (The rationale for this is that the push to renewables (wind and solar) are more expensive when the sun goes down and the wind quits blowing.)

My point is that the ideal charge at home time would be during the first and second most expensive times. What seems like a good deal now for electricity, likely won't last.

EV charging at home is benefiting from a cost averaged out to every home owner, EV user or not. This will likely not last, especially if EVs become more prevalent.

These are your salad days of electricity costs, and likely won't last once grandma can't afford to run her refrigerator so you can have renewable generated EV charging...lol

The regulations, taxation, weight, safety issues, subsidized infrastructure, true free-market cost adjustments, etc., with EVs are still in their infancy. It's the Wild West for now, but don't expect it to last.

Good luck.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by 90503

FWIW....Charging at home, in a garage, etc., is all well and fine and the most convenient.

But in case you haven't noticed, home rates for electricity are usually on a tiered basis. Different time of day, different price. The priciest (for me) is between the hours of 4pm to 9pm. Mid price 9pm to 8am. Least expensive, 8am to 4pm. (The rationale for this is that the push to renewables (wind and solar) are more expensive when the sun goes down and the wind quits blowing.)

My point is that the ideal charge at home time would be during the first and second most expensive times. What seems like a good deal now for electricity, likely won't last.

EV charging at home is benefiting from a cost averaged out to every home owner, EV user or not. This will likely not last, especially if EVs become more prevalent.

These are your salad days of electricity costs, and likely won't last once grandma can't afford to run her refrigerator so you can have renewable generated EV charging...lol

The regulations, taxation, weight, safety issues, subsidized infrastructure, true free-market cost adjustments, etc., with EVs are still in their infancy. It's the Wild West for now, but don't expect it to last.

Good luck.

Business use from 8am to 4pm is larger, so I'd have to wonder if their rates aren't opposite of yours. I know in Texas, while I'm there during the summer, they ask businesses to "voluntarily" reduce electrical load during the day and the hottest hours, because that's the peak usage.

[90503]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Business use from 8am to 4pm is larger, so I'd have to wonder if their rates aren't opposite of yours. I know in Texas, while I'm there during the summer, they ask businesses to "voluntarily" reduce electrical load during the day and the hottest hours, because that's the peak usage.

For sure, you are correct. The demand is greatest when A/C and daylight hours occur. That is when there may be an outage, or rotating outage, and requests to limit use. But, that is still the time when electricity rates are the lowest, as renewables of solar and wind are the most plentiful to add to the grid, ergo the less costly, yet still may not be enough during peak times.

After 4pm is the highest use of electricity at home (after work/business hours), but pricier as less renewable generation is added to the grid.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

FWIW....Charging at home, in a garage, etc., is all well and fine and the most convenient.

But in case you haven't noticed, home rates for electricity are usually on a tiered basis. Different time of day, different price. The priciest (for me) is between the hours of 4pm to 9pm. Mid price 9pm to 8am. Least expensive, 8am to 4pm. (The rationale for this is that the push to renewables (wind and solar) are more expensive when the sun goes down and the wind quits blowing.)

My point is that the ideal charge at home time would be during the first and second most expensive times. What seems like a good deal now for electricity, likely won't last.

EV charging at home is benefiting from a cost averaged out to every home owner, EV user or not. This will likely not last, especially if EVs become more prevalent.

These are your salad days of electricity costs, and likely won't last once grandma can't afford to run her refrigerator so you can have renewable generated EV charging...lol

The regulations, taxation, weight, safety issues, subsidized infrastructure, true free-market cost adjustments, etc., with EVs are still in their infancy. It's the Wild West for now, but don't expect it to last.

Good luck.

Interesting timing for the prices. Where I live, peak charges are 3pm - 7pm. Other than that and on weekends it’s $0.17. So, with 12 years of experience charging Chevrolet Volts and 3 months experience charging a Tesla, only using off-peak timing we have had zero issue. Since we typically start every day with 260 miles, driving it all day and charging outside the 3 - 7pm window is more than sufficient. Some utilities will offer EV charging plans. For the first several years that we had a Chevrolet Volt, we opted for a plan to pay a flat $40/month no matter how much we charged the vehicle. Our EVSE is set up on a separate meter so it’s easy to do that. Turned out, our actual usage was less than $40 a month so we got off of that plan and just paid per usage.

[90503]

Here's what residential customers have for options, pricing, EVs, etc. It's a lot to wade through, but it gives a picture of what we have to deal with. With EVs in CA and SoCal especially being a large percentage of the adopters, it might be worth a look if you care to.

https://www.sce.com/residential/rate...tial-Rate-Plan

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Here's what residential customers have for options, pricing, EVs, etc. It's a lot to wade through, but it gives a picture of what we have to deal with. With EVs in CA and SoCal especially being a large percentage of the adopters, it might be worth a look if you care to.

https://www.sce.com/residential/rate...tial-Rate-Plan

$0.33 off-peak is obscene! But they do seem to offer even lower rates for their Time of Use packages. $0.25 is a bit better. Glad I don’t live in SoCal.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

$0.33 off-peak is obscene! But they do seem to offer even lower rates for their Time of Use packages. $0.25 is a bit better. Glad I don’t live in SoCal.

Indeed it is. Here's what we are paying after the most recent raises across the board.

[MyNameIs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes because they already are.

The other fallacy in this is people think it needs to be done tomorrow. It doesn’t.

So do I think he grid will be capable in 2050? Yes, easily. But as MartinJim’s is trying to point out, we might be 50% EVs by that point.

So think of it like this. There are something like 250 million cars on the road in the US. IF and a big if, you had 100% of sales EVs in 2035. It would take almost 20 years to be 100% EV. Can the electric grid development keep up with that pace? I think so.

The OEMs are not responding to any EV mandate. They are responding to emissions mandates. And ICE has run its course. The cost for even small incremental improvements is ginormous. GM’s 2.0T has an indexing cam that is a wonder of engineering. Rumor has it that it was $800 piece cost for less than 1/2 mpg. That is insane and can’t continue.

And the border is a government issue. Right now the grid is a business issue.

But, to your point, our local power company hasn’t brought the new Electrify America charging stations up and there are 6 sharpers ready to go. But that is a very local issue of not the “grid”, but power companies simply running cable and keeping up. 😉