[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe I am in the minority here but looking back I dont think so, but I assumed the mid engine C8 Z51 package would have been faster than both 500 Base and ZL1 A10 on the track, but I guess I was wrong, it's going to take a higher end model.

Do you honestly think the results will be the same on a more common track like LS, streets of Willow, big Willow, and even VIR grand? VIR full has to be the fastest track out there, and you think a 495 hp car should of beat a 760 hp car with those straight Away’s.

[ChefBorOzzy]

I'm amazed that people think stuffing an engine in the back of a car will magically make a car faster on a non technical course than a car that already has sticky tires and much more horsepower. I take that back, I'm not amazed. Expect no different from these people.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

I'm amazed that people think stuffing an engine in the back of a car will magically make a car faster on a non technical course than a car that already has sticky tires and much more horsepower. I take that back, I'm not amazed. Expect no different from these people.

I'm amazed that you think all GM did was stuff an engine in the back of a car. LOTS went into the development of this car. To the point where it ran 11.1 in the quarter while running insane track times.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm amazed that you think all GM did was stuff an engine in the back of a car. LOTS went into the development of this car. To the point where it ran 11.1 in the quarter while running insane track times.

That's not what I said. Would people think a C7 Z51 would beat a GT500 around this track? Probably not. There's only so much a great platform can do for you if you're down a bunch of horsepower on a non technical track. It's not like the 760 hp was stuck in a 1970 Chevelle.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe I am in the minority here but looking back I dont think so, but I assumed the mid engine C8 Z51 package would have been faster than both 500 Base and ZL1 A10 on the track, but I guess I was wrong, it's going to take a higher end model.

To be honest, I thought that the mid-engine configuration would make even the base C8 better on track than the track focused C7 models. Especially C7 Grand Sport. It seems like it is better than C7 Stingray Z51 and close to C7 Grand Sport. It won't touch a C7 Z06. But the C8 Z06 will definitely show better than C7 Z06 just based on how close Stingray Z51 is.

I did not expect sub 3.0s 0-60. I expected it to have excellent acceleration, but 2.8s or 2.9s is insane for 495 hp car. Same for the 11.1 quarter. I was expecting around 11.5.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe I am in the minority here but looking back I dont think so, but I assumed the mid engine C8 Z51 package would have been faster than both 500 Base and ZL1 A10 on the track, but I guess I was wrong, it's going to take a higher end model.

What is wrong with you? Honestly. The C8 BASE 495hp beat the 760hp GT500 at everything but a track with a 4000' straight. Want to race them again at Willow Springs? And dont tell me the GT500 was tested as a production model because it clearly had a roll cage.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

What is wrong with you? Honestly. The C8 BASE 495hp beat the 760hp GT500 at everything but a track with a 4000' straight. Want to race them again at Willow Springs? And dont tell me the GT500 was tested as a production model because it clearly had a roll cage.

I've seen a few manufacturers run roll cages on cars that released times as factory stock. Probably a safety thing, Chevy did the same with the ZL1 at the ring.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

I've seen a few manufacturers run roll cages on cars that released times as factory stock. Probably a safety thing, Chevy did the same with the ZL1 at the ring.

Honestly I dont really care about the roll cage. I just don't want to hear about how MT "always tests as close to consumer purchase as possible" when track alignments are in the owner's manual.

Now the GT500 beat a 495hp car at VIR. Great. Congrats. But to say the C8 is a disappointment is laughable to me.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

I've seen a few manufacturers run roll cages on cars that released times as factory stock. Probably a safety thing, Chevy did the same with the ZL1 at the ring.

GM doing there own testing is quite different then magazine testing of new cars. When have you ever seen a magazine first test of a new car come with a roll cage? It maybe a safety thing, but not seen before in any testing I’ve seen or read. Then to go and say the car is just like buying it from the lot is BS. If Ford spent the time a money to install a cage, you really think they didn’t get it setup for the track.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Honestly I dont really care about the roll cage. I just don't want to hear about how MT "always tests as close to consumer purchase as possible" when track alignments are in the owner's manual.

Now the GT500 beat a 495hp car at VIR. Great. Congrats. But to say the C8 is a disappointment is laughable to me.

Who is saying the C8 is a disappointment? that thing is a beast!
I mean the roll cage is just added quite a bit of weight no, to an already fat car to boot?

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Who is saying the C8 is a disappointment? that thing is a beast!
I mean the roll cage is just added quite a bit of weight no, to an already fat car to boot?

I wouldn't say quite a bit of weight. I imagine it's easily below 100 pounds.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

I wouldn't say quite a bit of weight. I imagine it's easily below 100 pounds.

Mild steel 8 or 10 point cages are in the 120-180 range I believe.
Now if it's chromoly it can be under 100, I get they had a cage but adding any weight to a 4k+ car is a deficit.
I would not call a roll cage a "performance part".

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

That's not what I said. Would people think a C7 Z51 would beat a GT500 around this track? Probably not. There's only so much a great platform can do for you if you're down a bunch of horsepower on a non technical track. It's not like the 760 hp was stuck in a 1970 Chevelle.

The GT500 is very dependent. It is track-dependent, prep-dependent, DA-dependent, etc. And apparently, it can only win when it is against cars that is has a huge advantage against AND on a track where it can exploit those advantages. So yes, this track did heavily favor the 500. There will be tracks where the Z51 will match it or beat it. And likewise, there will be tracks where the ZL1 will beat it. However in the same price range of $65K, the GT50 and GT350R will not be able to beat the Z51 or ZL1 on any track at all.

So pretty much Ford made 1 car that can win if it has a huge advantage but not all the time and not everywhere.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Who is saying the C8 is a disappointment? that thing is a beast!
I mean the roll cage is just added quite a bit of weight no, to an already fat car to boot?

A supercharger adds weight too. So does huge brakes and big radiators. Are you saying the weight offset the performance gains? Because if so then that is a lame argument. Because you know what else added weight with absolutely no performance gains? the 2LT. And all the other $20K worth of options that came on the Z51 that was tested.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

What is wrong with you? Honestly. The C8 BASE 495hp beat the 760hp GT500 at everything but a track with a 4000' straight. Want to race them again at Willow Springs? And dont tell me the GT500 was tested as a production model because it clearly had a roll cage.

So are we now discounting every run made with a roll cage installed, that would include every prized Ring run layed down bu the Camaro and Vette correct? I remember the arguements in here that it was strictly for driver safety and offered no additional performance, in fact the added weight hurt it. I just want to make sure you are being clear and consistent with the criticism.