[GearBangr]

Originally Posted by suzook

I'm amazed at how much HP and torque ford gets out of that lil 5.0. That's IMPRESSIVE!

It is smaller, but it does have 16 more valves, 3 more cams, a bunch of chains, 3 more phasers. Both impressive in different ways I guess.
I think its getting tapped out in stock form though.
They had to up displacemt and go to flat plane crank to get more power for the Gt350.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok just to be clear, you think 25 HP and within a hundred pounds is "destroy"? Love you optimism, good sir but you are probably around .1 or so to 60. That is a solid win but farrrr from destroys.

Don't forget the extra 60lbft of torque. Along with the fact that the auto version wont be neutered like the 5th gen.

Originally Posted by suzook

I'm amazed at how much HP and torque ford gets out of that lil 5.0. That's IMPRESSIVE!

Don't need big cubes to make power with 32v's and dohc. Plus that "Lil' 5.0 ain't so little.

Originally Posted by GearBangr

It is smaller, but it does have 16 more valves, 3 more cams, a bunch of chains, 3 more phasers. Both impressive in different ways I guess.
I think its getting tapped out in stock form though.
They had to up displacemt and go to flat plane crank to get more power for the Gt350.

No there still plenty of meat on the bone. They can still go with bigger cams " factory is really small" more compression and they still haven't added Direct Injection. They went with the extra .2 liters to unshroud the valves for the amount of airbthey need at those rpms.

[GearBangr]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Don't forget the extra 60lbft of torque. Along with the fact that the auto version wont be neutered like the 5th gen.
Don't need big cubes to make power with 32v's and dohc. Plus that "Lil' 5.0 ain't so little.


No there still plenty of meat on the bone. They can still go with bigger cams " factory is really small" more compression and they still haven't added Direct Injection. They went with the extra .2 liters to unshroud the valves for the amount of airbthey need at those rpms.

I still wonder why they didnt go with DI for the 15. Maybe they want to piss of their customers like they did in 10-11 when they switched.
So more RPM basically to get more power at the expense of torque then, like the Boss.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Plus that "Lil' 5.0 ain't so little.

No, it surely is not....

[GearBangr]

Originally Posted by Capricio

No, it surely is not....

Haha! I love those comparison pics.

[suzook]

Originally Posted by Capricio

No, it surely is not....

Yikes! That's nuts. I'm still impressed with the numbers it puts out though.

[iSHOOTtheMOON]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I do like the comparisons and yes, the 6amaro should do even better vs. new stange then did the 2015 1LE, but like Number3 said, in these timing comparisons we are talking small differences.

What I put more stock in is the overall driving experiences of the professional drivers that test these cars - how they handle on the track, how is the braking - does it fade quickly - what is the overall enjoyment of driving the car - and for these I think the last two generations of the Camaro have outdone the Mustang, and for that reason, I look to the Camaro as my choice between the two, and the Challenger as well.

Take a look at the comparisons between the GT-R and ZL1 or Z06, yes the GT-R beats them in times, but the drivers usually say they enjoy driving the RWD vehicles over the AWD GT-R. BTW I'm not a GT-R hater, I think that car is insane and if i could afford one, it would probably be in the mix for me.

You need to check out the Motor Trend Re-Test of the Z06. They re-tested it and it ended up beating the GT-R's time. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._track_retest/

[Autonaut]

The 5.0 is impressive, but is a different animal than the pushrod LT. Much more complex and bigger in size.

I think next year Ford will add DI and a different intake/exhaust and cam package, paired with a better automatic transmission. Further down the line they will lighten the car as well. Performance wise the new camaro and mustang will be very similar.
If they dont the camaro will win in every performance measure for sure.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Autonaut

The 5.0 is impressive, but is a different animal than the pushrod LT. Much more complex and bigger in size.

I think next year Ford will add DI and a different intake/exhaust and cam package, paired with a better automatic transmission. Further down the line they will lighten the car as well. Performance wise the new camaro and mustang will be very similar.
If they dont the camaro will win in every performance measure for sure.

There will be no new auto until the 10-spd which at the very least will be a 2017 model year. Like Number 3 said the 10-spd is being co-developed with GM, so the Camaro will probably get it the same time as the Mustang. DI is not just something simple to add and would require a completely new engine design. If the GT350 doesn't use DI, then there is little chance a new engine will be ready next year. Lightening the car more would make sense but would beg the question, why didn't they do it when they brought out the new gen. I'm sure some GT350 parts will trickle down, but that's also the main reason for that model (lighter and more powerful than a GT).

['01LS1]

Maybe the extra weight on the new Mustang comes from the F250 sized pony they put in the grill. Someone posted photos yesterday of their Camaro next to a new Mustang & that pony was all I could see.

[Autonaut]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

There will be no new auto until the 10-spd which at the very least will be a 2017 model year. Like Number 3 said the 10-spd is being co-developed with GM, so the Camaro will probably get it the same time as the Mustang. DI is not just something simple to add and would require a completely new engine design. If the GT350 doesn't use DI, then there is little chance a new engine will be ready next year. Lightening the car more would make sense but would beg the question, why didn't they do it when they brought out the new gen. I'm sure some GT350 parts will trickle down, but that's also the main reason for that model (lighter and more powerful than a GT).

I did not know that. That DI was that complex.

As to why they did not lighten it more already? Maybe they did not have to with the gt350 coming up. Or maybe it was just a cost based decision.

Cant they add a 8speed to counter GM for next model year?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Autonaut

I did not know that. That DI was that complex.

As to why they did not lighten it more already? Maybe they did not have to with the gt350 coming up. Or maybe it was just a cost based decision.

Cant they add a 8speed to counter GM for next model year?

Someone else posted some details in another thread, but suffice to say DI needs a lot of "engine block up" changes. This is why the LT1 shares almost nothing in common with the LS series of engines before it.

Definitely possible, or they didn't think GM would drop the weight enough to make a difference.

Ford has no 8-spd to use. Development time on autos is extensive, hence why they decided to team up with GM. It's a huge help to both companies from an R&D and cost perspective.

[omegaman]

Originally Posted by Capricio

No, it surely is not....

Great comparison photo. Really illustrates the size of the Ford OHV V8 vs. Ford small block.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by iSHOOTtheMOON

You need to check out the Motor Trend Re-Test of the Z06. They re-tested it and it ended up beating the GT-R's time. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._track_retest/

Wow - Nice!

Human error on the alignment, and nice that they jumped all over adding a Rough Track mode - really impressive.

edit: notice how when debating whether or not to overturn their previous verdict that was in favor of GT-R NISMO, they state that the GT-R is "Almost as fun to drive"

As noted in that test, "It's working with an older chassis, significantly more weight, less powerful brakes, less tire, less power, and much, much less torque." In that regard, nothing has changed. It's also almost as fun to drive on the street and nearly as fast as the Z06 on a racetrack. Carlos Lago and I have debated the subject, and we agree it's simply impossible to say without putting both cars back-to-back again. Based on the information we have, the best we can do is declare a mistrial rather than overturn on appeal.