[m6-lt1]

https://youtu.be/BcMiAByzHPE?si=p8Ej2Le15f6gm7e7

Not exactly apples to apples as the dark horse is manual but still fun to see. And no, that Camaro is not a zl1. It’s a 2020+ SS with a zl1 bumper.

[Christian1LE]

It's too bad, the Camaro is just one of those cars that never really gained the recognition it should have while it was out. I guess it's a good thing for us, definitely going to be a car people look back on in the future and wish they would have bought. Even for a 2016 design it's still competing with the new M2 today on track, and it was better than the BMW for it's entire life. The new M2 is finally the only one that can compare to the Camaro(and that's only if you exclude the price).

Just glad I got mine, 2 years of beating on it and it still feels like new.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

It's too bad, the Camaro is just one of those cars that never really gained the recognition it should have while it was out. I guess it's a good thing for us, definitely going to be a car people look back on in the future and wish they would have bought. Even for a 2016 design it's still competing with the new M2 today on track, and it was better than the BMW for it's entire life. The new M2 is finally the only one that can compare to the Camaro(and that's only if you exclude the price).

Just glad I got mine, 2 years of beating on it and it still feels like new.

I would say the new m2 is definitely faster than the SS 1le but like you mentioned it’s priced a bit higher. It’s price once you add any options pushes it to zl1 territory and the Zl1 is definitely still faster. If the new m2 wasn’t so ugly and I wasn’t v8 biased I’d look into getting an m2 as my next car. But of course they also aren’t the most reliable cars so I probably still wouldn’t get one.

[RideWithDanger]

Its still annoying to me that the only way people know how to compare muscle cars is by drag racing them. "Oh wow, the brand new 70k Mustang with 50 more horsepower beat the 8 year old and much cheaper Camaro! Clearly Mustang is king of all muscle cars!"

Meanwhile that brand new Dark Horse can't even beat lap times set by cheaper Camaros years ago and its still not considered as good of a drivers car as the Camaro.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by RideWithDanger

Its still annoying to me that the only way people know how to compare muscle cars is by drag racing them. "Oh wow, the brand new 70k Mustang with 50 more horsepower beat the 8 year old and much cheaper Camaro! Clearly Mustang is king of all muscle cars!"

Meanwhile that brand new Dark Horse can't even beat lap times set by cheaper Camaros years ago and its still not considered as good of a drivers car as the Camaro.

This channel does both, they just happened to do the Drag race video first. Honestly I think it was appropriate because the video was partly about how the muscle car is all but dead and muscle cars throughout the years have made their mark in the drag racing department.

Just curious but where did you see the dark horse putting out worse lap times than various Camaro versions? I haven’t seen too much track testing of the Dark horse yet aside from the throttle house test where it put out a blistering fast lap.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I would say the new m2 is definitely faster than the SS 1le but like you mentioned it’s priced a bit higher. It’s price once you add any options pushes it to zl1 territory and the Zl1 is definitely still faster. If the new m2 wasn’t so ugly and I wasn’t v8 biased I’d look into getting an m2 as my next car. But of course they also aren’t the most reliable cars so I probably still wouldn’t get one.

I drove them back to back 5 days ago at the track. They are very similar, if the M2 is faster it's not by much, and it's just because it has more power. Hard to get a direct comparison though because they were both on very different tires. On the M2 I did a 1:43 at CMP with traffic and I only did a total of 4 laps, by comparison I've done a 1:40 with my 1LE on the supercar 3's. It wasnt my car obviously so I wasnt going to go crazy, also the traffic never let me set a representative time. Balance wise the cars were both similar, although it seems like you can make the M2 rotate better with throttle over the SS 1LE.

[RideWithDanger]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

This channel does both, they just happened to do the Drag race video first. Honestly I think it was appropriate because the video was partly about how the muscle car is all but dead and muscle cars throughout the years have made their mark in the drag racing department.

Just curious but where did you see the dark horse putting out worse lap times than various Camaro versions? I haven’t seen too much track testing of the Dark horse yet aside from the throttle house test where it put out a blistering fast lap.

Its actually the lack of data that is the problem. Ford has brought the Dark Horse to several tracks for testing and spy videos of it were rather unimpressive and Ford never released the times. People were comparing it to the Mach 1 and saying it just didn't stack up.

And sorry, my comment wasn't against this channel or this video, its just all I am seeing on social media. I get being a fan boy but Ford guys are trying to use a single drag race as the sole factor on why Mustang rules and Camaro sucks and its just odd to see how attached people are to one trick ponies. No pun intended.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by RideWithDanger

Its actually the lack of data that is the problem. Ford has brought the Dark Horse to several tracks for testing and spy videos of it were rather unimpressive and Ford never released the times. People were comparing it to the Mach 1 and saying it just didn't stack up.

And sorry, my comment wasn't against this channel or this video, its just all I am seeing on social media. I get being a fan boy but Ford guys are trying to use a single drag race as the sole factor on why Mustang rules and Camaro sucks and its just odd to see how attached people are to one trick ponies. No pun intended.

Gotcha. Yeah I’m excited to see the data once it comes out. We should get lightning lap data in February/March but unfortunately it won’t be great data. In an effort to find out why the SS 1le didn’t do very well at lightning lap 2016/17 (if you look at the results posted by car and driver you’ll see quite a bit of cars we know the SS 1le is right on par with were multiple seconds faster…) I found out they use different drivers for the cars so that’s definitely not apples to apples. Hoping some type of channel does a head to head, same day, same driver test of the SS 1le vs Mach 1/Dark horse. So far the best data we have is from throttle house. It just wasn’t same day testing and there track is kinda small.

[DaveC113]

DH has Trofeo RS 180tw tires than cost $2500/set and won't let testers use control tires, even RE71RS, to make the testing fair.

Until a private owner allows fair testing of the DH with control tires, who knows. The time Throttle House set with the car is very impressive regardless, even if it lost 1s because of tires the time is still fast.

[RideWithDanger]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Gotcha. Yeah I’m excited to see the data once it comes out. We should get lightning lap data in February/March but unfortunately it won’t be great data. In an effort to find out why the SS 1le didn’t do very well at lightning lap 2016/17 (if you look at the results posted by car and driver you’ll see quite a bit of cars we know the SS 1le is right on par with were multiple seconds faster…) I found out they use different drivers for the cars so that’s definitely not apples to apples. Hoping some type of channel does a head to head, same day, same driver test of the SS 1le vs Mach 1/Dark horse. So far the best data we have is from throttle house. It just wasn’t same day testing and there track is kinda small.

Yeah the Dark Horse was not slow by any means on that track but it had several advantages on that track, magnetic ride control being a huge one.

I kept seeing Mustang pages bragging about how much better than a 1LE it is (but with a 20k higher price tag) because of that Throttle House video but when you bring up a comparison against a similar priced ZL1 all of a sudden its "not a fair comparison because the ZL1 has a supercharger" or "doesnt matter cause Camaro is dead lol"

I think Ford made an excellent car here, but its not as performance oriented as the Camaro is. Which is fine, it was marketed to be the more livable option that makes an excellent touring car with plenty of performance. Its just not as track focused as the Camaro.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by RideWithDanger

Yeah the Dark Horse was not slow by any means on that track but it had several advantages on that track, magnetic ride control being a huge one.

I kept seeing Mustang pages bragging about how much better than a 1LE it is (but with a 20k higher price tag) because of that Throttle House video but when you bring up a comparison against a similar priced ZL1 all of a sudden its "not a fair comparison because the ZL1 has a supercharger" or "doesnt matter cause Camaro is dead lol"

I think Ford made an excellent car here, but its not as performance oriented as the Camaro is. Which is fine, it was marketed to be the more livable option that makes an excellent touring car with plenty of performance. Its just not as track focused as the Camaro.

Agreed and yeah I’ve seen them use dumb arguments like that before. Imho price is what should let cars be compared to each other. Chevy offering a supercharged V8 for 74k versus Ford offering only an NA V8 for 70k is Fords problem to solve. I bet the next GT500 starts at just under 100k. I know this is unrelated but it’s kinda sad how expensive cars have gotten. 10 years ago we could have gotten ZL1’s for what our 2ss 1le’s now msrp for

[Bosse'sBoss]

No wounder why FOMOCO never allowed that their Shelby GT350 and neither their Mach l and now their Dark Horse to be compared against the 6th gen Camaro SS1LE.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

No wounder why FOMOCO never allowed that their Shelby GT350 and neither their Mach l and now their Dark Horse to be compared against the 6th gen Camaro SS1LE.

What's the matter Colonel Sanders, CHICKEN?????

[FarmerFran]

Jason's videos are always good.