[bdougwrx]

Originally Posted by Zultain7

Camaro T4 - Mustang V6
Camaro V6 - Mustang EcoBoost
Camaro V6 1LE - Mustang EcoBoost PP
Camaro SS - Mustang GT
Camaro SS 1LE - Mustang GTPP

But what happens when the V6 1LE beats the GT PP on the track?

From the Car and Driver Lightning lap, "And it gets worse for Mustang acolytes: Despite a 100-hp deficit, the 1LE laps VIR faster than the eight-cylinder Mustang GT."

Camaro V6 1LE - 2:04 lap time. http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p-2016-feature
Mustang GT Performance Pack - 2:05.2 lap time http://www.caranddriver.com/features...eature

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Exactly.

Unless you have the "our GT PP got it doors blown off by the SS 1LE, so lets position it elsewhere to satisfy our needs" philosophy.

Ford called the GT PP track ready multiple times, including engineers saying it to my face at the Ecoboost tour and when I was invited to drive multiple Mustangs at Sebring. I guess everyone forgets all the propaganda Ford put out before the GT PP came out saying how it beat the Boss 302 on the track too. But, yeah, that car was never marketed as anything of the sort...

http://www.mustang6g.com/?p=2108

That's crazy they would track test a V8 muscle car and compare it against a previous mustang. What you posted proves no more than comparing a mustang against a BMW.

Compare how many 1le's are sold to GTPP's and get back with me.

The GTPP's are marketed and sold as a capable street car that can handle track duty. The 1le will be marketed and sold as a capable track car that can handle street duty. The GTPP's will be available at every Ford dealership nationwide. The 1le will not...and will likely be largely special order.

People are putting their money towards the performance pack because it's a daily driver, not a track car. People will put their money on the 1le because it's a track car.

[crankaholic]

IMHO

I4 vs EB - my preferences goes to the Camaro here
V6 vs EB PP - Camaro again
V6 1LE vs GT - probably the Stang, but I'm a hardcore V8 dude
SS vs GT PP - SS all the way!
SS 1LE vs GT350 - I would have to drive both really, but probably the GT350
Z/28 vs GT350R - depending on Z/28, that Voodoo engine is impressive and LS7 is gone
ZL1 vs GT500(?) - depending on GT500(?), there's still a chance for Ford here... maybe

The Camaro is so impressive, V6 models go up against V8s and a MUCH cheaper 1LE is probably just a s good as the GT350!

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

That's crazy they would track test a V8 muscle car and compare it against a previous mustang. What you posted proves no more than comparing a mustang against a BMW.

Compare how many 1le's are sold to GTPP's and get back with me.

The GTPP's are marketed and sold as a capable street car that can handle track duty. The 1le will be marketed and sold as a capable track car that can handle street duty. The GTPP's will be available at every Ford dealership nationwide. The 1le will not...and will likely be largely special order.

People are putting their money towards the performance pack because it's a daily driver, not a track car. People will put their money on the 1le because it's a track car.

Go over to M6G Forrest, and stay, you fit in over there...

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Go over to M6G Forrest, and stay, you fit in over there...

Such hostility.

[Zultain7]

Originally Posted by bdougwrx

But what happens when the V6 1LE beats the GT PP on the track?

From the Car and Driver Lightning lap, "And it gets worse for Mustang acolytes: Despite a 100-hp deficit, the 1LE laps VIR faster than the eight-cylinder Mustang GT."

Camaro V6 1LE - 2:04 lap time. http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p-2016-feature
Mustang GT Performance Pack - 2:05.2 lap time http://www.caranddriver.com/features...eature

It doesn't matter what beats what. At the end of the day the Camaro V6 competes with the EcoBoost. They are both the "upgraded" engines for their models. It is only logical to compare their performance packages to one another. Whether its called the 1LE or Perfomance Pack, they are there to serve a higher performance for that car.

All that the V6 1LE beating the GTPP proves is that Ford needs to make a better performing Mustang. Visually, they are a great car.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

SS vs GT
SS 1LE vs GT PP
ZL1 vs GT500
Z/28 vs GT350

Who wins majority of these battles performance wise? We'll know for sure when the GT500 and Z/28 comes out..

Originally Posted by enzia35

Don't forget the lower models!
2.0t=v6
LGX=Ecobeast.

Originally Posted by Zultain7

Why does it seem that everyone is getting the past into this? When looking into the current lineups of both manufactures its a pretty simple thing to see for me. I'm not 100% on where the ZL1 and Gt350/350R fall, It's played out to this.

Camaro T4 - Mustang V6
Camaro V6 - Mustang EcoBoost
Camaro V6 1LE - Mustang EcoBoost PP
Camaro SS - Mustang GT
Camaro SS 1LE - Mustang GTPP

Everyone who is throwing Price of this to price of that is missing the point of what the intentions of the manufactures lineups are. Regardless of the price between them, be it more or less, the lineups are the lineups.

Richard, Enzia, and Zultain you are correct. This is how the Camaro and Mustang have been positioned relative to each other.

Individual buyers might not follow 'the plan' due to engine preference or price or specific performance metrics or whatever ... and thats fine. But that does not change how the different models line up.

[whiteboyblues2001]

All I know is the GT350 (in any form) compares to the Z/28, not the SS 1LE. Ford didn't benchmark the GT350 while under development with the 1LE, they used the Z/28 as the benchmark. And when the new Z/28 comes out (in whatever form) is going to spank the snot out of the GT350.

Compare the lofty GT350 with h the 1LE? Next you will tell me the base mustang V6 compares to the Chevy Cruz. Apples and oranges are at least both fruit for peats sake!

[Mustang Fanboy]

I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to post my opinion anymore as anything that goes against the grain constitutes trolling.

Carry on.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Zultain7

It doesn't matter what beats what. At the end of the day the Camaro V6 competes with the EcoBoost. They are both the "upgraded" engines for their models. It is only logical to compare their performance packages to one another. Whether its called the 1LE or Perfomance Pack, they are there to serve a higher performance for that car.

All that the V6 1LE beating the GTPP proves is that Ford needs to make a better performing Mustang. Visually, they are a great car.

While I personally do not disagree with this sentiment, I must ask, why?

Mustang is currently more than capable for "the masses" we enthusiasts are never satisfied and will most likely mod to our desired level anyway.

So again, why does Ford need to make a Mustang that wins mag comparisons? What do they, as a company, have to gain from such a move?

[Zultain7]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

While I personally do not disagree with this sentiment, I must ask, why?

Mustang is currently more than capable for "the masses" we enthusiasts are never satisfied and will most likely mod to our desired level anyway.

So again, why does Ford need to make a Mustang that wins mag comparisons? What do they, as a company, have to gain from such a move?

It's not that they have to make a better Mustang for the masses, it was more of a comparative point. Its about people, mostly enthusiasts, who want to fight over articles about lap times, 0-60s, braking distance, ect. If that is the only judge then yes, Ford needs to develop a better performing Mustang. I personally have no problems with the current Mustang. Hell, I own an EcoBoost myself and have no problems with the way it performs.

On to how people who are not satisfied about their performance and modify their cars to achieve what they want, the more power to them. Most of my friends that I cruise around with have heavily modified cars. The point, to me, is never that a car cant be better than another. Its that factory to factory, some cars need the aftermarket to help.

Ford really has nothing to gain by playing into the "New Performance Wars." As long as they maintain the lower pricing, its no issue that the Mustang outsells the Camaro at this current time.

I'm hoping this clears up the statement I made early.

[motorhead]

For me the ability for direct comparison outside of base SS vs base GT and base V6 vs base V6 is very muddied on purpose and not really possible.

[SCullen]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

While I personally do not disagree with this sentiment, I must ask, why?

Mustang is currently more than capable for "the masses" we enthusiasts are never satisfied and will most likely mod to our desired level anyway.

So again, why does Ford need to make a Mustang that wins mag comparisons? What do they, as a company, have to gain from such a move?

The competition has driven all 3 companies to build better, faster, better handling cars and we are the winners. So Ford needs to build a better car so that Chevy will need to build a better car.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Zultain7

Ford really has nothing to gain by playing into the "New Performance Wars." As long as they maintain the lower pricing, its no issue that the Mustang outsells the Camaro at this current time.

This is exactly what Ford cares about, and has shown all along. They aren't making money on track cars, they are making money on daily drivers.

I would venture to say almost any auto enthusiast knows or has heard that Ford has some exotic engine nestled into their flagship GT350 (credit Ford ford heavy doses of advertising) with a magical flat plane crank. Almost no one outside of the chevy camp (and some Ford enthusiasts) have any clue that the camaro no longer carries an LS1, but rather an entirely new small block chevy shared with the corvette.