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Old 01-09-2018, 12:27 PM   #127
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Bump for the next ask al
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:17 AM   #128
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I'm assuming the "Bogging" for the m6 is so when people dump the clutch there isn't full power to the transmission and clutch. This can't be good for all the components. GM put this safety feature in trying to save on warranty work.

Last edited by CruzySS; 01-13-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:33 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by CruzySS View Post
I'm assuming the "Bogging" for the m6 is so when people dump the clutch there isn't full power to the transmission and clutch. This can't be good for all the components. GM put this safety feature in trying to save on warranty work.
I really hate to keep beating this dead horse, but basically anyone with drag racing experience who has taken a Gen 6 ZL1 with the M6 to a track will agree this car has a problem that goes beyond any drivetrain protection mechanism.

Surely the M6 Z06 would have similar warranty/drivetrain protection concerns, and that car clearly does not have the same problem.

The fact that the A10 runs the 1/4 mile almost a second faster is also a pretty good indication of a problem. Wouldn't GM want to protect the A10's drivetrain too?

Obviously the A10 is expected to perform much better on the strip, but come on. The difference between these two configurations is excessive. A good driver with an A8 SS will consistently beat an excellent driver with the M6 ZL1 on the strip. And that's with nearly 200 less horsepower!!

Also, in order for this to truly be a beneficial drivetrain protection mechanism at work, it'd need to somehow reduce the shock on the drivetrain when the clutch is released. However, this isn't what happens. The clutch is released, the surge of power passes from the engine to the wheels and THEN the engine boggs. At this point the damage is done.

IMO, the "bogging" happens when the car is trying to help the driver maintain control. Unfortunately, it's tuned poorly. I believe the fact that GM is using a PERCENTAGE for their wheel slip metric is working against them at very low speeds...AKA when launch control is needed most. Also, the car seems quick to remove power. When it removes power, it removes too much... And then, it's very slow to give the power back.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't believe for a minute this was intentional. If it were intentional GM's advertised 1/4 mile time for the car would be calculated accordingly. In its current configuration, it's nearly impossible to achieve the advertised 11.8 in the M6 ZL1.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:34 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travislambert View Post
I really hate to keep beating this dead horse, but basically anyone with drag racing experience who has taken a Gen 6 ZL1 with the M6 to a track will agree this car has a problem that goes beyond any drivetrain protection mechanism.

Surely the M6 Z06 would have similar warranty/drivetrain protection concerns, and that car clearly does not have the same problem.

The fact that the A10 runs the 1/4 mile almost a second faster is also a pretty good indication of a problem. Wouldn't GM want to protect the A10's drivetrain too?

Obviously the A10 is expected to perform much better on the strip, but come on. The difference between these two configurations is excessive. A good driver with an A8 SS will consistently beat an excellent driver with the M6 ZL1 on the strip. And that's with nearly 200 less horsepower!!

Also, in order for this to truly be a beneficial drivetrain protection mechanism at work, it'd need to somehow reduce the shock on the drivetrain when the clutch is released. However, this isn't what happens. The clutch is released, the surge of power passes from the engine to the wheels and THEN the engine boggs. At this point the damage is done.

IMO, the "bogging" happens when the car is trying to help the driver maintain control. Unfortunately, it's tuned poorly. I believe the fact that GM is using a PERCENTAGE for their wheel slip metric is working against them at very low speeds...AKA when launch control is needed most. Also, the car seems quick to remove power. When it removes power, it removes too much... And then, it's very slow to give the power back.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't believe for a minute this was intentional. If it were intentional GM's advertised 1/4 mile time for the car would be calculated accordingly. In its current configuration, it's nearly impossible to achieve the advertised 11.8 in the M6 ZL1.
No that the whole thing in a nut shell. When I bought my zl1 in September they couldnít give away a m6 car due to this issue being known already. I could have got exactly what I wanted hyper blue carbon fiber package sucker was loaded for 56k with 800 miles but it was a m6 so I wouldnít touch it which is sad as I grew up on manuals. I wanted a stick till started researching the problems. Itís not only the launch but gear splits on the trans are very poor which also limits top speed on a super car to 180??? The old gt500 could run mid 11s and have a 200 mph top speed with less hp about the same weight. I hate ford and love crushing those last gen gt500s that have mods at the track in my stock zl1 a10.
But like stated cars with less power are beating out m6 zl1 at the track. On the street the m6 isnít in the power well due to chosen ratios seen in videos where an a10 crushes a m6 from a roll race. 8 years ago any manual car killed an auto on the street from a roll and at the track on slicks same thing dump the clutch and gone.
Tuned m6 zl1 on 800-900whp cutting low 1.4 60 foots are not breaking so I think GM was way too conservative on this whole approach on both cars. My car ran 11.00@126.5. Thatís a 1.71 60 foot that on my log launched at 80 percent throttle then at 12 mph closed it down to 30 percent all nannyís off killed my 60 foot and mph on the other end as it slowly gave throttle back in and never went full as was cool out so was already restricting power. I have multiple logs on the car and see it in the tune at 30 mph it takes a dump on power too so not just the launch either.
If the car didnít feel lazy I donít think any one would be complaining. But it doesnít drive right m6 cars and a10 you can feel it pulling power so car never has a linear feel when excellerating. Which is again GM too conservative on this car as seen plenty of z06 cut 1.50 60 foots on Tires and when I cut my 1.71 it didnít spin and I was on the floor thatís all it had at that moment. The car will mph better in the quarter when it is spinning the tires slightly as itís not chopping the throttle and slowing giving it back. 11.40 in the heat on a slick track 1.89 spinning 60 foot but 129 mph. 11.00 cool weather would expect a better mph but 1.71 and power chop killed it.
Itís taking a car that should run 1.50 60 foots and 10.60s for the 130 mph it can run and making it embarrassing on this platform. Drivertraim is a beast so let it use it. I am to the point if offered a hot tune but took off 3 years of powertrain warranty I would be all over it. So there is my rant being an avid drag racer that WILL also road race the car and why I got this car and not one more decicated to straight line performance only.
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11.37@126 1.79 60 all stock. 11.56@ 127.50 1.96 60 foot best mph. 11.00@126 with one msd wire and crush pipe uncrushed with 1.71 60 foot. 1.70 best to date and no spin at all. thats all it had on the floor
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:40 PM   #131
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+1. Iím doing everything right but it boggs and shudders instead launch. Even if I try to keep the RPMs up it will pop and backfire. Getting desperate.
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:13 PM   #132
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This is so annoying to have to deal with on a daily driver!

Any progress from GM?

It is not just a track issue, it is also a safety concern as the car boggles down every time you stop on traffic or at a stop light.

People might thing I am trying to show off when RPM (uncommanded) spikes back up like I was a retarded kid driving his turbo Scooby! :-/
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:47 PM   #133
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Any progress from GM?
The short answer is no.

I think the next step is getting this question to appear on the next poll. Then we vote and hopefully this question will be presented to Al and his team.

I'm really hoping that the Camaro team sees how many different people are experiencing this problem, and they take an interest in fixing it.

The unfortunate truth is we aren't going to get anywhere with the dealers on this, and we all know it. We're all at the mercy of Al and his team, and right now this thread is just about our only hope.
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:25 PM   #134
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This still has my vote.
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Old Today, 01:02 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1z350 View Post
Tuned m6 zl1 on 800-900whp cutting low 1.4 60 foots are not breaking so I think GM was way too conservative on this whole approach on both cars.

My car ran 11.00@126.5. That’s a 1.71 60 foot that on my log launched at 80 percent throttle then at 12 mph closed it down to 30 percent all nanny’s off killed my 60 foot and mph on the other end as it slowly gave throttle back in and never went full as was cool out so was already restricting power. I have multiple logs on the car and see it in the tune at 30 mph it takes a dump on power too so not just the launch either.

If the car didn’t feel lazy I don’t think any one would be complaining. But it doesn’t drive right m6 cars and a10 you can feel it pulling power so car never has a linear feel when excellerating. Which is again GM too conservative on this car as seen plenty of z06 cut 1.50 60 foots on Tires and when I cut my 1.71 it didn’t spin and I was on the floor that’s all it had at that moment. The car will mph better in the quarter when it is spinning the tires slightly as it’s not chopping the throttle and slowing giving it back. 11.40 in the heat on a slick track 1.89 spinning 60 foot but 129 mph. 11.00 cool weather would expect a better mph but 1.71 and power chop killed it.

Drivertraim is a beast so let it use it. I am to the point if offered a hot tune but took off 3 years of powertrain warranty I would be all over it. So there is my rant being an avid drag racer that WILL also road race the car and why I got this car and not one more decicated to straight line performance only.
+100

Its also insulting that now;

1) GM is FULLY supporting AND IMPROVING the ZL1 A10-Based Drag Race Performance Program and;

2) GM took the same LT4, installed a 25% larger Blower, CHANGED THE TUNE ETC and uses it touting the Fastest 2019 ZR1 Corvette.

And GM wonders why Class-Action lawsuits arise.

ALL THE ZL1-1LE M6 OWNERS WANT IS EXTREME TRACK PERFORMANCE AS REPRESENTED BY THE ZL1 1LE GM MEDIA.

Hey Bueller,............can you help?
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Old Today, 09:29 AM   #136
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Poll is up! This thread has been included!

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518611
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Old Today, 09:37 AM   #137
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Here's our chance guys.. PLEASE VOTE!

Don't assume that this topic will be selected. This poll has a few popular questions.
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Old Today, 11:22 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by travislambert View Post
I really hate to keep beating this dead horse, but basically anyone with drag racing experience who has taken a Gen 6 ZL1 with the M6 to a track will agree this car has a problem that goes beyond any drivetrain protection mechanism.

Surely the M6 Z06 would have similar warranty/drivetrain protection concerns, and that car clearly does not have the same problem.

The fact that the A10 runs the 1/4 mile almost a second faster is also a pretty good indication of a problem. Wouldn't GM want to protect the A10's drivetrain too?

Obviously the A10 is expected to perform much better on the strip, but come on. The difference between these two configurations is excessive. A good driver with an A8 SS will consistently beat an excellent driver with the M6 ZL1 on the strip. And that's with nearly 200 less horsepower!!

Also, in order for this to truly be a beneficial drivetrain protection mechanism at work, it'd need to somehow reduce the shock on the drivetrain when the clutch is released. However, this isn't what happens. The clutch is released, the surge of power passes from the engine to the wheels and THEN the engine boggs. At this point the damage is done.

IMO, the "bogging" happens when the car is trying to help the driver maintain control. Unfortunately, it's tuned poorly. I believe the fact that GM is using a PERCENTAGE for their wheel slip metric is working against them at very low speeds...AKA when launch control is needed most. Also, the car seems quick to remove power. When it removes power, it removes too much... And then, it's very slow to give the power back.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't believe for a minute this was intentional. If it were intentional GM's advertised 1/4 mile time for the car would be calculated accordingly. In its current configuration, it's nearly impossible to achieve the advertised 11.8 in the M6 ZL1.
Questions:

Can a tuner eliminate the bog?

Does it bog if NOT using launch control, with stabilitrak off? This is supposed to turn off all of the nannies.
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Old Today, 11:32 AM   #139
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Got my vote!!!
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Old Today, 11:46 AM   #140
travislambert

 
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We have over 85 unique members pledging support within this thread alone.

I want to see at least that many votes for this topic.

Please tell your friends to vote.
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