[newmoon]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Ok, so if you don't trust them, one of our members has run 10.81 with the Heartbeat SC that he had installed. My SC on my G8 weighed under a 100lbs so that puts the Camaro at about 3800lbs. The SC puts down about 580 at the wheels and cost under 10k installed. The Hellcat is around 65k so the Camaro is a hell of a value and faster then the hellcat with equal power. Hennessy or Heartbeat its still faster, lighter and cheaper then the Hellcat.

Did the SC Camaro run on DRs if so it is not faster than a HC on DRs, as many have run as quick as 10:70s with no mods other than tires. What happens when you begin to mod the Hellcat?

Does the Camaro come with full forged internals to handle the boost over the long term? Does it come with the proper cooling to run full boost for an extended period, a transmission capable and drivetrain capable of handling this power over the long term? If I recall the Camaro was built to 460 hp specs how long will it last throwing another 200-hp at it and running it hard on a regular basis?

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Did the SC Camaro run on DRs if so it is not faster than a HC on DRs, as many have run as quick as 10:70s with no mods other than tires. What happens when you begin to mod the Hellcat?

Does the Camaro come with full forged internals to handle the boost over the long term? Does it come with the proper cooling to run full boost for an extended period, a transmission capable and drivetrain capable of handling this power over the long term? If I recall the Camaro was built to 460 hp specs how long will it last throwing another 200-hp at it and running it hard on a regular basis?

This is the problem with the majority of the fanboyism in the car enthusiast world.

Personally it's infuriating to watch people drool over "My 900 RWHP Supra" or "My 1200 AWHP R34" or anything like that for a few reasons.

One: The stock car cannot handle that much power and will require you to make significant changes to the powertrain (often switching to stronger American transmissions) which in effect makes your car no longer a "Supra" or "Insert Fanboy Car Here".

Two: Where are you going to use this car? When are you even going to be able to enjoy this car outside of the track? You'd literally be playing roulette every time you stepped on the highway. Real world applications please.

Agreeing with the quoted post, unless every part of the powertrain supports this power it's totally pointless. This is what they don't tell you about these Alpha and Omega GT-R's with 1200+ HP like cool you can go to the drag but I hope you can spend 28k on the internals for the Transmission when it goes (and it will, go to any GT-R forum it happens on the stock power cars). Otherwise, at least you'll have a nice garage ornament... This applies to the Camaro as well, you get a powertrain rated to a certain limit. Without changing it you are risking long term damage, mainly to the transmission and axles.

On the subject of this thread, you're comparing two different beasts. This is amusing in the fact that I'm sure there are people with the Hellcat who think they are unbeatable and then get walked by a "sleeper" and the thought of being able to do that is definitely fun. But totally irrelevant and has nothing to do with "Chevy Performance". Is it a great ad for Hennessey? You bet, but it's not a good ad for Chevy because the car doesn't say ZL1 on it.

[Snowblind]

Originally Posted by samsumon

I still do not get how this is impressive at all....

I couldn't care less about the video, you could have been told the story without it and closed your eyes...the outcome would have been the same.

If we take the builders claim at face value that the car puts out 750 at the crank then that is impressive to me (warranted also). We have seen on this forum someone with a Heartbeat and exhaust pumping out 560, so say 620ish at the flywheel(m6). If all that seems right, then we can assume a blower friendly cam and some head work will net you another 130hp ( albeit with 1lb of additional boost). Whether you feel that is practical to drive on the street.....that is up to the buyer.

The Hellcat runs at 13lbs to attain the 707. Yes, the Camaro does not have forged pistons but it is only pushing out a very measly and non heat-soaked 7lbs. You don't have to go to H to have it done, he's already done the heavy lifting for you. Drivetrain issues are soon to follow, I would agree to that statement though.

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by drivingagain

This is the point. For what they want for a Hellcat with decade old technology you can swing your d*ck really hard. Hellcat starts at $62000+ Camaro SS $38,000 no taxes basically cheapest models. So For $24,000 no one thinks this is a fair fight? If I added $24,000 to my SS I would have reworked the entire car's drivetrain, suspension, brakes, and thrown in a bad ass stereo because you had 3K left over.

There is nowhere near that price difference IF you equip the cars similar.
You have to start with a 2SS for starters not the 1SS.

Similar cars are about 14K difference.

[FastCarFanBoy]

lets put some sticky tires on them and take them to the track and see the real story.


i'll bring a broom and dustpan just in case.

[Gmanuel]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Did the SC Camaro run on DRs if so it is not faster than a HC on DRs, as many have run as quick as 10:70s with no mods other than tires. What happens when you begin to mod the Hellcat?

Does the Camaro come with full forged internals to handle the boost over the long term? Does it come with the proper cooling to run full boost for an extended period, a transmission capable and drivetrain capable of handling this power over the long term? If I recall the Camaro was built to 460 hp specs how long will it last throwing another 200-hp at it and running it hard on a regular basis?

It isn't quicker, but according to trap speeds, it is as fast, if not faster.
No, it doesn't have forged internals, but there have been guys who pushed the stock bottom end to close to 800 (I wouldn't do this, but it's happened) without issue, so I don't see how high 500s would be a problem over the long term (good tune being a given).
We won't know the limits of the stock cooling system until they're pushed, so to assume anything is foolish.
A8 C7s have shown the 8l90 to be a strong transmission, so even with the extra weight of the Gen6, it will handle a good amount of power. The rest of the drivetrain, who knows. I have however, seen HCs break axles at stock power levels. Excess weight stresses drivetrain parts just like it strains the bones and muscles/tendons of a human. The HC is that morbidly obese guy at the rec, trying to play basketball. Notice I didn't say track, because the most popular event in track is a short, straight sprint, which the HC does well.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by Baywire

This is the problem with the majority of the fanboyism in the car enthusiast world.

Personally it's infuriating to watch people drool over "My 900 RWHP Supra" or "My 1200 AWHP R34" or anything like that for a few reasons.

One: The stock car cannot handle that much power and will require you to make significant changes to the powertrain (often switching to stronger American transmissions) which in effect makes your car no longer a "Supra" or "Insert Fanboy Car Here".

Two: Where are you going to use this car? When are you even going to be able to enjoy this car outside of the track? You'd literally be playing roulette every time you stepped on the highway. Real world applications please.

Agreeing with the quoted post, unless every part of the powertrain supports this power it's totally pointless. This is what they don't tell you about these Alpha and Omega GT-R's with 1200+ HP like cool you can go to the drag but I hope you can spend 28k on the internals for the Transmission when it goes (and it will, go to any GT-R forum it happens on the stock power cars). Otherwise, at least you'll have a nice garage ornament... This applies to the Camaro as well, you get a powertrain rated to a certain limit. Without changing it you are risking long term damage, mainly to the transmission and axles.

On the subject of this thread, you're comparing two different beasts. This is amusing in the fact that I'm sure there are people with the Hellcat who think they are unbeatable and then get walked by a "sleeper" and the thought of being able to do that is definitely fun. But totally irrelevant and has nothing to do with "Chevy Performance". Is it a great ad for Hennessey? You bet, but it's not a good ad for Chevy because the car doesn't say ZL1 on it.

I can understand why you're saying what you're saying, but you need to do some research first. Our transmission - at least the M6 - is rated to nearly 1000hp. The axle is the weakest point, but adding a SC with 7psi won't even approach its limit either.

Where are you going to enjoy it? They're using a Magnuson Heartbeat, which applies boost instantly in all gears, at all speeds. It cools a lot more effectively than an LT4 blower and all of my temps have stayed at the same levels they were at (even when I push the car hard) prior to adding the blower. I'm running my Hearbeat with the stock boost level (6 psi) and enjoy it everyday, everywhere (highways and back roads) without even needing to push the car to excessive top speeds.

And they're not two different beasts. They just leveled the playing field but adding a blower to the car that didn't have one. Granted, they've also tuned the Camaro our cars are lighter and can turn, while the Hellcat can't.

You don't need forged internals and all of the other upgrades that are part of the ZL1 just to add a supercharger to our cars as long as you don't go overboard. The Heartbeat can run roughly half the boost of the LT4 supercharger to achieve nearly the same performance output. My car also sounds a hell of a lot better than anything rolling off of a GM assembly line and I've still retained all of my NPP functionality. I had the same general upgrades added to my car, but by a reputable shop, and for a fraction of the price of what this slimy outfit charges. There is no way I would ever sign an indemnity clause with Hennessy.

If you want to pay for a ZL1, by all means, go ahead. It's a great car and I'd be happy to own one. I didn't need all of that though and I've got it right now without any issues. I guarantee that I'm also paying a hell of a lot less in insurance every year while still having literally every single upgrade that I've added covered as well. I don't care about the warranty. It's why I bought a Camaro to begin with - American cars are cheaper to fix if something goes wrong. If I ended buying up a ZL1, I would've added headers and a tune (at a minimum) to that car too. Modding a car isn't for everyone, but if you're smart about it, you can have exactly what you want for a lot less $.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Gmanuel

It isn't quicker, but according to trap speeds, it is as fast, if not faster.
No, it doesn't have forged internals, but there have been guys who pushed the stock bottom end to close to 800 (I wouldn't do this, but it's happened) without issue, so I don't see how high 500s would be a problem over the long term (good tune being a given).
We won't know the limits of the stock cooling system until they're pushed, so to assume anything is foolish.
A8 C7s have shown the 8l90 to be a strong transmission, so even with the extra weight of the Gen6, it will handle a good amount of power. The rest of the drivetrain, who knows. I have however, seen HCs break axles at stock power levels. Excess weight stresses drivetrain parts just like it strains the bones and muscles/tendons of a human. The HC is that morbidly obese guy at the rec, trying to play basketball. Notice I didn't say track, because the most popular event in track is a short, straight sprint, which the HC does well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand your points, I am just not a fan of these aftermarket tuned turn key cars. They typically never perform as advertised because what is advertised is not what is delivered, the manufacturer dials them back so much to ensure you don't grenade the car and come back on warranty.

I don't think the Hellcat was ever designed to play "basketball" it was designed to be like fullback and run over people. Its purpose is to rule the streets/strip which is where 95% of all driving is done. Whether its stop light to stop light, roll, 1/8, 1/4, or topend this car is very hard to beat.

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

I can understand why you're saying what you're saying, but you need to do some research first. Our transmission - at least the M6 - is rated to nearly 1000hp. The axle is the weakest point, but adding a SC with 7psi won't even approach its limit either.

Where are you going to enjoy it? They're using a Magnuson Heartbeat, which applies boost instantly in all gears, at all speeds. It cools a lot more effectively than an LT4 blower and all of my temps have stayed at the same levels they were at (even when I push the car hard) prior to adding the blower. I'm running my Hearbeat with the stock boost level (6 psi) and enjoy it everyday, everywhere (highways and back roads) without even needing to push the car to excessive top speeds.

And they're not two different beasts. They just leveled the playing field but adding a blower to the car that didn't have one. Granted, they've also tuned the Camaro our cars are lighter and can turn, while the Hellcat can't.

You don't need forged internals and all of the other upgrades that are part of the ZL1 just to add a supercharger to our cars as long as you don't go overboard. The Heartbeat can run roughly half the boost of the LT4 supercharger to achieve nearly the same performance output. My car also sounds a hell of a lot better than anything rolling off of a GM assembly line and I've still retained all of my NPP functionality. I had the same general upgrades added to my car, but by a reputable shop, and for a fraction of the price of what this slimy outfit charges. There is no way I would ever sign an indemnity clause with Hennessy.

If you want to pay for a ZL1, by all means, go ahead. It's a great car and I'd be happy to own one. I didn't need all of that though and I've got it right now without any issues. I guarantee that I'm also paying a hell of a lot less in insurance every year while still having literally every single upgrade that I've added covered as well. I don't care about the warranty. It's why I bought a Camaro to begin with - American cars are cheaper to fix if something goes wrong. If I ended buying up a ZL1, I would've added headers and a tune (at a minimum) to that car too. Modding a car isn't for everyone, but if you're smart about it, you can have exactly what you want for a lot less $.

Clearly there was a disconnect in my post.

There's nothing wrong with modifying a car, I plan on modifying my Camaro when I get it.

I also believe you and I are different car enthusiasts and we sit far from each other on the spectrum.

Personally, I don't need 700+ Hp and Torque to go 0-30 or cruise at 65 on the highway. But everyone is entitled to their own build and their own preferences.

Also, are you talking about the TR6060? The Camaro SS/ZL1 standard equipped torque limited 420 lb-ft 6-Speed Manual Transmission? Or the MG9 TR6060? Which comes standard on the CTS-V handling rated to 551 lb-ft of torque? Both of which obviously capable of handling more power, but I'm not sure I'd be trying to force 550+ lb-ft down the throat of a 420 rated tranny on a daily basis.

[JDP Sales]

Originally Posted by Johnman

Which car is factory stock, with full factory drivetrain warranty? Comparing a heavily modded car to a factory stock one ain't exactly fair.

If not done by Hennessey, you could own a 750 HP 6th gen for less money. The comparison is completely fair in my opinion.

All the best,

Jared Royce
801.545.4215

[Denis]

Originally Posted by 2010SLVRBULIT

amusing, at best.

yea amusing is the right word for it.


Factory vs modified is never really a fair. "check out my 750hp car vs this 700hp car" ummmm yea, wow. the car with less weight and more power won.


In my opinion, all that does is make the Camaro look bad. The fact that the car has to be modified...extensively modified...in order to beat a factory stock vehicle is embarrassing. All Mopar is going to so is "look at all of the work they had to do to get that car to finally beat the one we make right here in house with factory fit and drivability." Because im sure you lose some with an aftermarket Head/Cam/Blower package.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by Baywire

Clearly there was a disconnect in my post.

There's nothing wrong with modifying a car, I plan on modifying my Camaro when I get it.

I also believe you and I are different car enthusiasts and we sit far from each other on the spectrum.

Personally, I don't need 700+ Hp and Torque to go 0-30 or cruise at 65 on the highway. But everyone is entitled to their own build and their own preferences.

Also, are you talking about the TR6060? The Camaro SS/ZL1 standard equipped torque limited 420 lb-ft 6-Speed Manual Transmission? Or the MG9 TR6060? Which comes standard on the CTS-V handling rated to 551 lb-ft of torque? Both of which obviously capable of handling more power, but I'm not sure I'd be trying to force 550+ lb-ft down the throat of a 420 rated tranny on a daily basis.

Unless I'm completely wrong, the TR6060 in our Camaro's is rated to handle 600ft lbs of torque as is. I've seen in some places where this number is actually 700. People have been putting a lot more power than that through it without problems, but that's what it's formally rated for. I have no plans to go that high or anywhere near those limits - but if I do, I'll make the appropriate upgrades to handle it.

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

Unless I'm completely wrong, the TR6060 in our Camaro's is rated to handle 600ft lbs of torque as is. I've seen in some places where this number is actually 700. People have been putting a lot more power than that through it without problems, but that's what it's formally rated for. I have no plans to go that high or anywhere near those limits - but if I do, I'll make the appropriate upgrades to handle it.

TR6060:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ns/tr6060.html

MG9 TR6060:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...g9-tr6060.html

These are Chevy's specs for the 6 speed manuals. (unless these are old specs, this is just what came up when researching)

I know the majority of mass production car companies often undervalue their tech to protect themselves from shelling out new transmissions and axles from warranties. "Well Chevy you said it could handle XYZ power."

It just seems like a lot to underrate it by. Definitely interesting.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by Johnman

Which car is factory stock, with full factory drivetrain warranty? Comparing a heavily modded car to a factory stock one ain't exactly fair.

I would say the Hellcat is heavily modified to be a Hellcat compared to an SRT8. I wonder if anyone thinks it's fair to put drag radials on a Hellcat and run 1/4 mile against a bone stock Camaro? Let's see 707 HP vs 455...yeah, that's about right. However, I watched a bone stock Hellcat 2 weeks ago run 13.48s at Memphis International Dragway. My car was running 12.08s...a 5th gen would have beat him easily. I could not get next to him for the bragging rights...just saying, a Camaro holds it's own against most current offerings bone stock.