[BWeir49221]

I’ve been thinking about upgrading the oem system, if you could call it that. I’ve read through a few different threads of members’ builds. My initial thoughts have been to replace the dash and door speakers with something that could be ran off the head unit. Then, possibly add a pair of 6x9’s to the rear deck and power them with an amp. Then, if those don’t satisfy my low end needs, add a 10” sub. I’m not an audiophile, but just looking to clean up the oem clarity and gain a bit more volume for when the road noise kicks in. I don’t like others to hear my music and don’t want to rattle windows. I like a good sounding subwoofer as good as the next guy, but in moderation.

I stopped by a local audio pro shop today and was not ecstatic to see what they offered. They are a JL Audio signature dealer, but pushed me towards Audison speakers and amp. The guy there said he would leave the oem dash speakers alone and let them stay powered from the HU. He suggested Audison Prima 690’s in the doors and the rear deck, powered by an Audison 5ch amp. He said he would leave the oem side panel speakers intact and powered by the HU, then add a Wavetech DSP to blend it all. A JL Audio W1 10” sub was recommended as well. All of this for the grand total of $2600 installed.

I feel like if I was going for high end, this would probably be a decent setups but I’m not. I haven’t upgraded any stereo systems since around 2006, mainly because I have felt all my vehicles since then has had adequate sound for me. This Camaro system is very dull and basic and needs a little help.

For you guys that have been down this road, what are your thoughts based on my needs. I’m more than capable of doing the install myself, but don’t mind paying the shop either.

[FrostZ]

I am in the process of a build myself in my Zl1, I also have been fortunate enough to listen to several systems in other Camaro's. The Audiofrog GS25's are a perfect replacement for the dash speakers IMO, over 2/3 of the systems I heard used them, both home and shop installs. The factory style mounting tabs is an added bonus, so that maybe of interest if you wanted the factory dash speakers changed out to something a bit nicer. The doors have near limitless options between 6x9 and 6.5 style speakers, rear side panel speakers do very little I've found, and while rear deck speakers are a good option being a 6x9 the overall speaker height is severely limited by the rear glass blocking most installs. Just a few things I have found along the way, if you want an in-depth read on some audio check out keep_hope_alive's build log in the member journals. Great read with a wealth of information if you want some more detailed information about sound treatment, mounting etc.

[BWeir49221]

I’ll check that out. Thanks for the insight.

[Msquared]

I also did the Audiofrog GS25 in the dash and their GS690 woofers in the doors. Later, I added an amp with built-in DSP. You can do everything I did for under $1000. The AF speakers have the advantage of being pretty sensitive, meaning they can play louder for a given wattage input than most other aftermarket speakers.

Probably 80% of your musical information - the "clarity" you seek - comes from those dash speakers. If you don't replace them, I don't see the point. There is no way to adequately tell you what a difference just replacing those with the GS25s made, all by itself. There is so much more information being transduced to the listener (including a lot more high- and low-end extension from the dash) that it's like another world. And honestly, the AF GS690s in the doors extend to an honest 40hz with much better detail and tonality and require less power to play well, that you may well not have the desire for more speakers in the rear deck or a sub. You really should listen to such a setup before getting more elaborate with any of this. If you ever head to the St. Louis area, let me know and we can meet up.

[FrostZ]

Msquared is spot on, couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you for you build log btw, great info for my setup I’m working on.

[Cp Rooks]

If You're Doing A Single Subwoofer Don't Get That W1 10" I Have The 12" TW3 With My Bose And It's On Par With The Stock System. Very Happy With It, But I Sometimes I Wish I Had A Second One Because It's ONLY On Par. Fills Out The Missing Bass. You'll Probably Be Disappointed With The W1

[BWeir49221]

I was a little bummed by the lack of detail from the pro audio shop. I figured he’d ask me what kind of music I listen to and how loud I want it to be. It’s like he was selling me the ‘usual’ setup that works for everyone else. That’s why I figured I’d be better off coming to you guys and taking your advice and doing my own install. He never mentioned sound deadening anything, and that’s something I want to do, especially around the rear wheel wells and floor pan. Not too much due to weight, but enough to help. Then of course, add a little dampening to the doors around the speakers.

The dsp that everyone does now is something I know nothing of. Years ago, everyone just installed components and went with it. At least for casual listening. I’d it best to go with a stand alone dsp or get an amp with it built in?

My original thought was to replace dash/door speakers and add a rear deck set. Now I’m not so sure that it would even be beneficial. Sounds like I would be better off spending that money on the amp. If I amped the dash and doors, would I be dealing with annoying, elevated sounds like chimes? Can things like that be tuned out with dsp? I figure if these 4 speakers are the only ones I’m going to use, I might as well power them well and only go through this 1 time.

As for the sub, I listen predominantly to country music with some classic rock. I’ve always been satisfied with single 10’s in the past, but I have no idea how they perform in these cars- I’ve always owned trucks. The Pro suggested the W1 10” due to its lower weight, but said 10” or 12” is was personal preference. I think I would prefer the thin series so it wouldn’t take up as much space in the trunk. As for 1 or 2 subs, I don’t know what it needs. Would you guys go with JL, or are other brands good? Last setup I had was a Kicker SoloBaric 10” and I was more than pleased with it.

[Msquared]

How would you even add a set of rear deck speakers without adding an amp? I can tell you that even adding the very modest little Kicker KEY 200.4 that I'm using (which has integrated DSP) makes a big difference with the AF dash and door speakers. DSP is a real game changer to integrate the two sets of drivers, power them more efficiently (via active crossover setup), and create a decent soundstage. There is no doubt a standalone DSP unit or (probably better yet) a digital interface with built-in DSP and a better amp would sound a lot better yet. I just didn't want to add more weight or complexity, and the beautiful thing about the little Kicker is that it calibrates itself instead of making the owner learn how to do all that and spend a long time getting it right.

For most rock and all country music, you don't need a sub at all. The GS690s in the doors will go plenty low. Electric bass guitar only goes down to around 40hz, and those drivers will reproduce that at full volume with good clarity and tonality. You really need to hear them.

[BWeir49221]

Originally Posted by Msquared

How would you even add a set of rear deck speakers without adding an amp?

I would have powered these off an amp using the rear side speakers as signal input.

Years ago, I had a set of Pioneer 6x9’s in small wedge boxes along with a mild amp. They were pretty stout. Needless to say, I was impressed how well a small speaker could pump out bass. I may buy a larger amp that could power a sub if I later decided to add one. Better than buying another amp. I’ll look into the Kicker amp. Like I said, I have no knowledge with dsp, so the simpler the better, I think.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by BWeir49221

I would have powered these off an amp using the rear side speakers as signal input.

The rear side speakers don't get a full-range signal, so tapping those for an amp is bad idea. The front four speakers are full-range, but they only represent 2 channels (each dash and door pair work as component speakers with a passive and incredibly crude "crossover"). I didn't explicitly mention this here (but it's in my thread that I linked), but I don't use the rear side speakers at all. They are faded all the way down and I listen purely to the dash and door outputs.

[BWeir49221]

Would it be ok to leave the rears intact and connected to the HU? Would they be off-putting while the fronts are in use?

[BWeir49221]

In regards to the fronts being components, does it affect the setup by having a 3-way/4-way in the doors, or will that introduce too many high frequencies?

[Cp Rooks]

Originally Posted by BWeir49221

I was a little bummed by the lack of detail from the pro audio shop. I figured he’d ask me what kind of music I listen to and how loud I want it to be. It’s like he was selling me the ‘usual’ setup that works for everyone else. That’s why I figured I’d be better off coming to you guys and taking your advice and doing my own install. He never mentioned sound deadening anything, and that’s something I want to do, especially around the rear wheel wells and floor pan. Not too much due to weight, but enough to help. Then of course, add a little dampening to the doors around the speakers.

The dsp that everyone does now is something I know nothing of. Years ago, everyone just installed components and went with it. At least for casual listening. I’d it best to go with a stand alone dsp or get an amp with it built in?

My original thought was to replace dash/door speakers and add a rear deck set. Now I’m not so sure that it would even be beneficial. Sounds like I would be better off spending that money on the amp. If I amped the dash and doors, would I be dealing with annoying, elevated sounds like chimes? Can things like that be tuned out with dsp? I figure if these 4 speakers are the only ones I’m going to use, I might as well power them well and only go through this 1 time.

As for the sub, I listen predominantly to country music with some classic rock. I’ve always been satisfied with single 10’s in the past, but I have no idea how they perform in these cars- I’ve always owned trucks. The Pro suggested the W1 10” due to its lower weight, but said 10” or 12” is was personal preference. I think I would prefer the thin series so it wouldn’t take up as much space in the trunk. As for 1 or 2 subs, I don’t know what it needs. Would you guys go with JL, or are other brands good? Last setup I had was a Kicker SoloBaric 10” and I was more than pleased with it.

The W3 Is The Same Low Profile As The W1 If You Didnt Know. Weight Difference Between The 10" And 12" Wouldn't Be Something To Worry About. Kicker Is Good, JL Is Just Super Clean Bass. You'll Need An Lc2i Pro Output Converter, And I Highly Suggest Getting The Sub Thump Wiring Harness So You Aren't Cutting Wires. You Don't Need A DSP If You Get These. The Harness Takes Care Of The Microphone Function That Puts White Noise Out Of Your Speakers For Cabin Isolation. The Lc2i Cleans The Signal For The Speakers. You'll Tap Into The Door Speakers For A Sub NOT The Rear Deck. I Don't Know Much Else About Other Speakers In The Car, But Do Know That The Stock Amp And Headunit Are Funky And You'll End Up Getting Less Speaker Volume Unless You Gut Everything And Start From Scratch. Adding Just A Subwoofer And Amp Is Super Easy If You Want To Save Money And Do It Yourself. Tuning It Can Take Some Time To Learn if You're Like Me And Haven't Done It Before. It's Super Simple I Just Had A Problem Where The Sub Frequency Was Set Too Low And I Couldn't Figure Thats What My Problem Was. Everything Gets Tucked Into The "Spare Tire Area" But The Sub. I Keep Mine In The Backseat. I'd Like To Make A Base In The Trunk Out Of Plywood And Make A Mount Behind The Seat In The Future, But It's Nice Having A Full Trunk Area. Back Seat Isn't Used Anyway

[BWeir49221]

The whole dsp thing is where my knowledge stops, what little I have of it. I have no trouble disassembling interiors and wiring/making harnesses, etc. I figured I would buy the harness so I don’t have to cut anything. I’ve heard that Gen5diy sells them too. Are they the same thing from both places?

Where’s the best place to purchase sound deadening materials?