[jd2021]

Hello All,

Hope you're doing well today. I am trying to get more involved in HPDE/Auto-x/Road Course driving and I would say I'm at a beginner to pre-intermediate skill level. Back when I was in Cali, I would hit the canyons every other weekend and went to streets of willow a couple of times but usually stayed in the beginner/intermediate groups. I want to improve myself to become a better driver, and was wondering if anyone would recommend any resources to read or watch? I've been watching some youtube videos on racing and I understand that seat time is the best teacher, but also want to reach out to the resource that is this forum to learn from actual people as well.

My biggest issue is most likely my braking, I forget how much stopping power these cars actually have and either end up braking like you do on the street(slowly stopping and not using the full brakes at the right time) or use too much brake too soon and don't carry enough speed into the corners.

I've done the track prep for my car as well so I know I'm not missing out there (Camber and good brake fluid).

If anyone wants some reference to my skill level some of my PB's for track times are as follows:
Streets of willow: 1:30:xx
Pueblo Motorsports park 1:50:xx

Any comments/suggestions would be most welcome!

[Christian1LE]

On top of doing more track days, I would watch videos and try to do some sim racing. If you're not carrying enough speed into the corners it just means you're either braking too soon or not trail braking enough into the corner.

I would find a good reference point on the track and slowly creep up on your braking zones until it feels right. As you turn into the corner you need to start coming off the brakes. Your car can only brake 100% in a straight line, as soon as you start turning you have to start coming off the brakes.

Would need some video/data to be able to tell you more.

[eimarshall]

Find a video of another faster Camaro at the track you are looking to drive. Take notes on braking points and throttle inputs. Next time out, try to approach those points and see what happens to your time.
I have even gone so far as to write down everything I do on a lap. Throttle/brake application(rate, pressure, time, trailing on/off), turn in points/markers, track position, speed at different corner positions, up/down shifts, etc.. It really helped me memorize what I needed to do where. Once I had the procedure down for a track, I could focus on the timing and control at various points to improve total lap times. I could easily recognize changes as I improved and update the procedure to compensate.

To maximize your learning at a track day I would also HIGHLY suggest getting a video/data system. I initially just used the PDR to see where I was off throttle/brakes(coasting) and to check my car placement(experiment with different lines).
Even something as simple as a phone app GPS system can give you some helpful feedback. A GPS module(I like the Racebox mini) or coaching device(Garmin Catalyst) can also help immensely depending on your budget.

[ariZona28]

Get an instructor to ride with you. Ride passenger with a more experienced driver. Have experienced drivers ride with you.

[That1guy_tim]

Ross Bentley "Speed Secrets"

[carguy55]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Get an instructor to ride with you. Ride passenger with a more experienced driver. Have experienced drivers ride with you.

This is the way

[N Camarolina]

Happy to hear you are humble and want to learn. The last 2 posts (Ross Bently online stuff and have in-car coach) are the best suggestions.

As a novice, you don't know what you don't know. More seat time will be a waste if you don't also have some basic theory of weight transfer and how it relates to tire contact patch (Ross Bently online) and some in car-coaching.

There are many HPDE programs that don't provide coaching above Novice level or don't provide consistently good coaching. But there are a few that do. BMWCCA is generally offers consistently good coaching and is the one that I normally do. I heard that Porsche (PCA) and Chin both do as well, so would not hesitate to recommend those. You'll be looking for an organization that uses a structured evaluation system (skills report card) so that your developing skills can be tracked over time and are viewable online by subsequent coaches, and it's clear to all what you do well and where there is opportunity for improvement. Chin, BMW (and I think PCA) use these grading systems.

[jd2021]

Hello All,
Thanks for all the suggestions, much appreciated! It looks like coaching is the next step for me then. I probably haven't done enough research into it but so far from what I've tried to look into it doesn't look like there's very much instruction or classes for the tracks near where I live in Pueblo County. The three tracks that I plan to go to most are Pueblo Motorsports Park, PPIR and High Planes raceway and those are the only ones that I've been looking at to see if they offer any instruction but I'm probably not looking hard enough. I will take this all into consideration going forward!

[khcoaching]

Check out my Substack!

I coach both bikes and cars and the information directly applies.

https://www.khcoaching.com

[wakespeak]

Braking late is usually a good tactic with these cars but it doesn't give you necessarily a better lap time. You need to understand your line into the turn and out. Sometimes braking later and turning late helps - you can measure that by your max speed into the next corner. Sometimes no - you can also do a geometrically efficient minimum radius. It depends on the turn.

Point is you need to understand your car, maximizing traction for getting on the throttle. It varies with tires, temp, track conditions and so forth. Thats the fun part - practice.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by jd2021

Hello All,
Thanks for all the suggestions, much appreciated! It looks like coaching is the next step for me then. I probably haven't done enough research into it but so far from what I've tried to look into it doesn't look like there's very much instruction or classes for the tracks near where I live in Pueblo County. The three tracks that I plan to go to most are Pueblo Motorsports Park, PPIR and High Planes raceway and those are the only ones that I've been looking at to see if they offer any instruction but I'm probably not looking hard enough. I will take this all into consideration going forward!

To help find HPDE events near you, you can check the motorsportreg.com site. Only thing is most events are not posted yet for 2024, so you'll have to be patient. You can also try contacting CHIN, your local BMWCCA chapter, and PCA local/regional chapter to ask about upcoming planned events near you.

[Rnovrit]

If you have any friends or acquaintances that run in one of the endurance series, ( lucky dog, champ car, 24hr lemons, etc) see if you can join them or just rent a seat for the weekend. You are in the car for 1-2 hours at a time and can learn a lot in a short period of time over a race weekend. I ran a team for 10 years and learned a ton.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Rnovrit

If you have any friends or acquaintances that run in one of the endurance series, ( lucky dog, champ car, 24hr lemons, etc) see if you can join them or just rent a seat for the weekend. You are in the car for 1-2 hours at a time and can learn a lot in a short period of time over a race weekend. I ran a team for 10 years and learned a ton.

That does not sound like a wise move for the OP at this point in my opinion. He 's novice level and only done a few track days at most in his life and doesn't have basic car control skills or familiarity with running close to other cars at speed. Participating in a Lemons race etc would simply put him and fellow racers at undue risk.

Your suggestion could be good for gaining valuable seat time AFTER he's developed some basic skills, and comfort level with having other cars immediately adjacent at high speeds.

[Rnovrit]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

That does not sound like a wise move for the OP at this point in my opinion. He 's novice level and only done a few track days at most in his life and doesn't have basic car control skills or familiarity with running close to other cars at speed. Participating in a Lemons race etc would simply put him and fellow racers at undue risk.

Your suggestion could be good for gaining valuable seat time AFTER he's developed some basic skills, and comfort level with having other cars immediately adjacent at high speeds.

You assume these races are filled with skilled drivers. Not the case at all. There are tons of first timers and beginners on track. Most people there are happy to help and give useful advice. These are novice level races. Not only is there varying skill levels but a huge number of vehicles from mild to wild. I totally understand your point of view but we all need to start somewhere. The op already has a little track time so they have some track knowledge to get them going. Running in these events not only gives you lots of valuable seat time to work on car control skills but also teaches a lot about situational awareness of other vehicles and drivers around you.