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Old 02-15-2013, 10:06 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Ken_ View Post
Wasn't this you?

"A lightly boosted V6 will run circles around a lightly boosted I-4, so the I-4 will need more radical components to handle higher boost just to keep up with the V6. That means for the same level of performance you will shell out more money for the I-4, and have less headroom to tune it because it will already be pushed closer to the limit just to feel like a mildly boosted V6."

Sounds like you were speaking in general. You didn't state anything regarding make/model/type. I speak from what I know- turbocharged I-4s beating the crap out of V-6 and V-8s with FI. Look for the FACTS all around you.
Where exactly did I say anything that even suggests they are being compared in different cars?

If you think that I meant different cars then I can take your approach and say I meant the V6 was in a mini cooper and the I-4 I was thinking of was in an International School Bus.

I can play your silly semantics game too! Wheeee! It's fun to intentionally misinterpret people to make it look like I won an argument!! I never tried this before, and it's additcive! Give me some more posts to dismantle! This is fun!
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:11 PM   #282
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You mean to tell us you never make changes in your daily life ? You never watch new TV shows, try new restaurants, wear a new style of clothes ? Nobody is forcing you to do anything, just because you don't care for something that is being offered, shouldn't mean it shouldn't be offered at all to others. Whether you like it or not, change is inevitble , and without change there is no future.

As a side note, it you don't switch it up with your wife, someone else will ...
Change rules!

Ever heard of "New Coke", "Windows Vista", "Star Wars Episodes 1, 2, 3" and the list goes on!
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:26 PM   #283
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You guys crack me up ... If a car is out of your reach, who's fault is that ? I'm not rich by any means, but I stopped all my bad habits to pay for the toys I have. The only one keeping you from the things you want is YOU.
I don't have any of the habits you consider "bad", and I make a good living.

I happen to live in one of the highest taxed states in the union, so I get a ding there, and I can't reloacate at the moment because of family details. Where I live and work I need a 4WD truck/suv with offroad type capabilities, so I have to budget for 2 personal vehicles. I could easily buy all the cars you have if I wanted to, but my needs are different than yours.

I happen to also contribute heavily to my own personal retirement account, because Medicare and Social Security are GOING BANKRUPT.

What I completely reject is the same idiots who have destroyed the economy, and devalued my savings, and are bankrupting my govt. run retirement "insurance" are now putting a gun to the head of companies who makes things that I wish to buy and FORCING them to make them MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

To make matters WORSE, they go around pretending that their actions are noble and beneficial, and 51% of the people fall for it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:30 PM   #284
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Thank you for making my point ... Your right, I don't care if you limit yourself and can't afford the things you want in life. You sound like one of those hippies that wants everything given to them. Not all performance cars are taxed, only those that don't meet standards. Buy yourself a new GT500, no extra tax on that.
Many people can afford things but choose not to because they don't like the direction things are going. Why buy a $60K car when someone might decide that you don't "need" it and take it away.

Last edited by Captain Awesome; 02-15-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:33 PM   #285
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Your opportunities in life are the same as mine and everyone elses. I don't recall anyone guaranteeing the top of the line of any one product.
Were you originally from Florida, or did you move there to get away from State income tax?
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #286
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Ok so the 82 Camaro had a 350 cu in V8 that made 150 hp and if you upped the anty you get get the 165 hp Cross Fire injected fire breathing beast. All government sponsored circa early 1970's emissions requlations (not fuel economy).

So the new 2.5 L I4 makes 200 hp and the 2.0L Turbo makes 270. Don't get hung up on what the Camaro is based on what it was. History says the 2.5L would smoke the 82 V8.

And we've already referenced the awesome Iron Duke earlier in this thread. Yikes!!!!

Just sayin'
That's a really bogus comparison. The 82 V8 was a complete POS because the EPA and NHTSA came along with all their CAFE and "smog" standards 10 years earlier, and it took the car companies another 10 years to get back to where they were when it all started.

If you think we shoud all go back to driving cars for the with power like that of cars 20 years ago (taking 20 years to get back to current power), then CAFE is your ticket.

I think many of the people here must have been born in the mid-late 80's and came of driving age in the late 90's or early 2000's, and completly missed the dreck we had in the mid 70's and 80's. They have NO CLUE how bad CAFE was for performance, so they don't know enough to oppose it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:24 PM   #287
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Performance started taking a hit around 1971, when emission standards was increased and low lead fuel was introduced. After that is when they started to make standards for MPG. The problem we had was the lack of technology to keep up. We have come a long way since then, and far surpassed the performance levels prior to the new standards due mainly through new technology.


Also my moving to Florida had nothing to do with lack of state taxes, at the time I didn't even know about the tax thing here.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:39 AM   #288
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Performance started taking a hit around 1971, when emission standards was increased and low lead fuel was introduced. After that is when they started to make standards for MPG. The problem we had was the lack of technology to keep up. We have come a long way since then, and far surpassed the performance levels prior to the new standards due mainly through new technology.


Also my moving to Florida had nothing to do with lack of state taxes, at the time I didn't even know about the tax thing here.
You mean the emission standard change didn't help performance? Gee Wally, I thought you said ALL change was for the better? You are argumentative for its own sake, you own a bunch of muscle cars and brag about your means to own them but argue for the Camaro to be changed into a 4 cylinder econobox because all change is good.

Your statements are not to be believed, if they were--my father in law dying of cancer and my mother dying of a heart attack in the same year must have been a fantastic change. I'm sure all the people who lost money when Lehman crashed or my fellow soldiers who were maimed last year from rocket attacks and IEDs are thinking how awesome it is that their having legs thing changed.

I DO remember the '70s. I am NOT a hippie nor do I expect things for free. The discussion was about 4 cylinder Camaros. This is a Camaro forum, I would have never thought you'd find so many Camaro fans who attack those who like V8 engines, and advocate for govt. regulation to turn muscle cars into econo green low displacement hamster engined smart cars. But I guess thats a change too.

If we embrace and accept every change for the worse, nothing will ever improve and we will doom ourselves to a permanent downward spiral.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:55 AM   #289
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Worse for you maybe yes, but not necessarily for others. That's where survival kicks in and just learn to accept and go with the flow. In other words in life you change the things you can and embrace the things you can't.
I'm not even sure what you are advocating here? If things are worse for you should you change things, or embrace the suck, or accept crap? Worse for you, yes but not for others. Is this an elitist version of "sucks to be you?" Yeah I got mine (I'm Rick James B**ch) now were gonna make Camaros synonymous with Honda Accords.

If people of my complexion would have embraced things they couldn't change, I'd probably be picking cotton somewhere.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:15 AM   #290
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That's a really bogus comparison. The 82 V8 was a complete POS because the EPA and NHTSA came along with all their CAFE and "smog" standards 10 years earlier, and it took the car companies another 10 years to get back to where they were when it all started.

If you think we shoud all go back to driving cars for the with power like that of cars 20 years ago (taking 20 years to get back to current power), then CAFE is your ticket.

I think many of the people here must have been born in the mid-late 80's and came of driving age in the late 90's or early 2000's, and completly missed the dreck we had in the mid 70's and 80's. They have NO CLUE how bad CAFE was for performance, so they don't know enough to oppose it.
Was only pointing out to those that are implying the Camaro is and has been so awesome that you couldn't have a 4 cylinder engine in it. It has had a 4 cylinder and it has been a crappy performing car.

Allllllll I was saying is that if you put the 2.5L in the car it would likely perform better than the 82 POS powered Camaro.

Anything else you are pulling from my post is you jumping to an incorrect conclusion.

But lets just ask, since you seam to want this to be about government intervention in our lives and not just "why would anyone want a 4 cylinder in a Camaro".

At what point should the government not regulate our transportation? Should you be required to have lights to drive more safely and so others can see you? (FMVSS regulation) Should you have mirrors in order to safely opperate your vehicle and not damage others? (FMVSS regulation) Should you have brakes to safely stop and an acclerator that doesn't stick? (FMVSS regulations). Should you have the confidence that the Chinese should be able come here and sell whatever hooptie mobile they want with disregard to basic automotive safety? Or should it just be a blanking free for all and you can drive whatever the hell you want because it's a free market? How about loads on big trucks? Should they be required to meet certain safety regulations so you can be safe? (Gov. Regs). Should there be a speed limit?

Where is that line?

And don't jump to conclusions on my post, just comment on if truly believe it should be a wild west free for all on the roads.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:05 AM   #291
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hello ,
welcome to you on this forum site.
I have transport business having four toyota which are six yr old, now i want to change them. for this I am taking reference from some websites. please suggest me for good options.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:29 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by martingary1803 View Post
hello ,
welcome to you on this forum site.
I have transport business having four toyota which are six yr old, now i want to change them. for this I am taking reference from some websites. please suggest me for good options.
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2013 MERCEDES BENZ SL-CLASS
You should probably be on a truck site. This is Camaro 5.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:37 AM   #293
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You mean the emission standard change didn't help performance? Gee Wally, I thought you said ALL change was for the better? You are argumentative for its own sake, you own a bunch of muscle cars and brag about your means to own them but argue for the Camaro to be changed into a 4 cylinder econobox because all change is good.

Your statements are not to be believed, if they were--my father in law dying of cancer and my mother dying of a heart attack in the same year must have been a fantastic change. I'm sure all the people who lost money when Lehman crashed or my fellow soldiers who were maimed last year from rocket attacks and IEDs are thinking how awesome it is that their having legs thing changed.

I DO remember the '70s. I am NOT a hippie nor do I expect things for free. The discussion was about 4 cylinder Camaros. This is a Camaro forum, I would have never thought you'd find so many Camaro fans who attack those who like V8 engines, and advocate for govt. regulation to turn muscle cars into econo green low displacement hamster engined smart cars. But I guess thats a change too.

If we embrace and accept every change for the worse, nothing will ever improve and we will doom ourselves to a permanent downward spiral.

Gee Beav ... Nothing like reading between the lines and taking things out of context ... Never once did I say ALL change is good. Never once did I say a change today would make a difference better or worse tomorrow. Some changes take a longer period of time to correct.

I will however state, never once did I say V8's sucked and I didn't like them. I was born and raised in Detroit, and my life revolved around the auto industry. I also was a strong advocate for the street scenes on Woodward Ave. and Gratiot ... My whole point in this entire thread is it's not your place or mine to say someone can't or shouldn't want a 2.0T in a Camaro. Who cares if the ZL1 cost extra taxes, most that can afford one this is a non issue.

I stand behind my statement that you change the things you can, and embrace the things you can't.

I lost a lot of friends in the late 60's and early 70's that were drafted into a war we didn't belong in. But from all of that there were lessons learned, that are applied today.

You know nothing about me, I was a very big into anti government. I was at every protest and sit in I could get to. If you want to call me an elitist because I'm able to make it in life, and am responsible for my own destiny or demise so be it.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:06 AM   #294
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Was only pointing out to those that are implying the Camaro is and has been so awesome that you couldn't have a 4 cylinder engine in it. It has had a 4 cylinder and it has been a crappy performing car.

Allllllll I was saying is that if you put the 2.5L in the car it would likely perform better than the 82 POS powered Camaro.

Anything else you are pulling from my post is you jumping to an incorrect conclusion.

But lets just ask, since you seam to want this to be about government intervention in our lives and not just "why would anyone want a 4 cylinder in a Camaro".

At what point should the government not regulate our transportation? Should you be required to have lights to drive more safely and so others can see you? (FMVSS regulation) Should you have mirrors in order to safely opperate your vehicle and not damage others? (FMVSS regulation) Should you have brakes to safely stop and an acclerator that doesn't stick? (FMVSS regulations). Should you have the confidence that the Chinese should be able come here and sell whatever hooptie mobile they want with disregard to basic automotive safety? Or should it just be a blanking free for all and you can drive whatever the hell you want because it's a free market? How about loads on big trucks? Should they be required to meet certain safety regulations so you can be safe? (Gov. Regs). Should there be a speed limit?

Where is that line?

And don't jump to conclusions on my post, just comment on if truly believe it should be a wild west free for all on the roads.
Ok I'll give it a shot. We need Govt. regulation for safety and basic road laws. You are correct and I will concede this. But Govt works for us, they shouldn't work for themselves or for special interests. There shouldn't be regulations designed to force my behavior to support their monetary gain. For instance, a certain Missouri Politician shouldn't push to give stimulus money to windmill companies when his son owns one. Al (Jazeera) Gore shouldn't be able to force cap and trade legislation when he owns a company that stands to make quite a fortune from it. Legislation shouldn't force all cars to be the same, or most people to have to drive "Le Govt. econo car"

this thread started about 4 cylinder Camaros, and we all have opinions on it. Yours are valid but so are mine. You prefer a small energy efficient Kia type entry level Camaro, some on here prefer a Honda accord or nissan Altima style SS. I prefer the reason I bought this car in the first place.

GM and the Govt. will do what they do. You are correct-- they had a 4 cylinder Camaro and they had underperforming weak sister V8s. They also discontinued the Camaro, and they went bankrupt. When they advertised the iron duke, they (like now ). Praised the 4cylinder engine. They didn't say " this will be a piece of crap for entry level sales purposes." If they choose to do what many here seem to advocate; making the entry level car an econo box and the SS a Honda accord I will not buy GM, much less Chevy. (And I love Chevy's)

So to conclude, the Govt. can make and should make regulations, but not onerous ones or self serving ones or unnecessary ones.
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