[dray]

When I bought this car, I considered Mustang and Camaro and Challenger in that order. I was buying Fords for the last 20 years before that. My wife drives a Ford Edge that we both love. For me, Camaro just seemed the better car, especially the interior. Mustang interior seemed cheap to me with those cheesy toggle switches. I get complements all the time about how GORGEOUS my car is, so I don't buy the styling argument. Though, I have a lot of respect for Lutz.

[ac-427]

Very interesting discussion. I recently sold our 2015 Z-28, that I considered absolutely stunning in appearance, and ended up with a 2018 SS Redline convertible that I like even better because of the 8 speed auto. As far as looks are concerned, I can't find an angle on the 18 that I don't like. To me, the car looks good from any direction. As far as visibility while driving is concerned, I don't like straining my neck, so I use my mirrors for lane changes and other maneuvers in traffic. When I have a particularly unusual situation, usually occurring from a standing stop, I've trained myself to orient the car and adjust the mirrors so I don't have to twist my neck to ridiculous extremes before making my next move.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BFella

I love my 6th gen and think is looks better than my 5th gen that I had. This car is light years ahead of the 5th gen.

I love it and that's all that matters.

+1 and I came from a 13 ZL1. My 16 2SS A8 NPP MRC is a better car and I knew it the minute I saw the Alpha 2SS in person

[Blazin383]

I personally couldn’t care less what Bob Lutz or anyone else says about the Camaro vs the Mustang, nor could I care if they sell a thousand Mustangs for every Camaro! In fact I’d be happy to see less Camaros on the road. Would make mine more exclusive! I bought the Camaro over the Mustang because I preferred everything about the Camaro vs the Mustang.

As far as the worn out discussion about the Camaro visability, if you don’t like the view from the cockpit, buy a Mustang or a Challenger, or a Honda for that matter. Simple as that! Don’t buy a Camaro and spend all your time boohooing about the visability!!

When I was looking at cars to buy I wanted to look at Camaros and my wife wanted nothing to do with a Camaro because she’d heard so much about how terrible the outward visability was. She literally didn’t even want to look at one! When we found our first 15 2LT that was loaded with all the goodies she decided she’d take a look. She drove it, she loved it, and we bought it! Shortly there after we traded it for the new 16 2SS and she absolutely loves it! Drives it every day except in the winter. A month ago I bought another Camaro, a 17 V6 basic LT with a manual trans with none of the cross traffic alerts or lane change warming systems, and don’t really miss any of it, and I love driving it too! I’m 5’10” and my wife is 5’6”. Any limited visibility is easily overcome if you have the ability to turn your head from side to side, adjust the seat position, and are capable of adjusting your mirrors.

[ctrlz]

Two things Lutz does not address:
1) Car sales continue to shrink at the expense of SUV sales in the current market.
2) As the overall muscle car market is shrinking, brand loyalty within that segment has increased for who-knows-what reason. The 2016 Camaro refresh came at a time when current Dodge and Ford owners were less likely to switch.

[I`m Batman]

Bob Lutz seems like one of those guys that I know throughout my life that blames everyone else except himself. Also full of shit and BS his way through life, and takes other people's credit, throws other people under the bus so he can advance in life. One of those guys that like to states the obvious in meetings and blame everyone else and never take responsibility and own up to things... When things are good, he'll take the credit. When things are bad, he'll blame everyone but himself.


... just my impression from reading that article...


No body give Mustangs a second look on the streets... I don't care about this stuff, I bought the car for myself and the performance, but every time I drive the Camaro, people break their necks trying to get a look at it. Thumbs up, compliments all day long. I drop the kids off at school sometimes (drive thru drop offs) and the teachers that opens the car door say that this is the coolest car that comes through... and there are Mustangs and Challengers that comes through...


Mustangs just look like a normal 2 door coupe that you see everywhere that kind of does OK at performance but not the best at anything. Challenger is just a fat old outdated muscle car that can only go straight. Camaro has everything that I'm looking for in a no non-sense performance sport car that I can afford that it's the best at what it supposed to do.

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by fastball

Mustang has almost always outsold the Camaro. It’s always been a chick car. And more for those who don’t know much or care much about cars. Which is the majority of the country.

Besides, you can’t get a moonroof on the Mustang lol

Fixed it

[bpang1234]

I don't give a **** which manufacturer wins the sales competition as long as they all get enough sales to field these cars.

Camaro can remain the performance choice and that's fine.
Challenger can remain the retro-style + comfort choice and that's fine.
Mustang can play somewhere in the middle to get the most sales and that's fine.

As long as all three can exist THAT IS FINE!

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by Glen e

Great story.....he really is one of the visionaries in the biz, no matter what you think of his Camaro stance.....

Yes he was a visionary but now he may be going blind after his latest remarks.

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Well, this is all a moot point anyhow. He also claims that no one will own a car in less than 20 years.

Well, he maybe right because of the WW3 nuclear destruction....

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I worked for GM for 38 years and partially for that reason I am partial to Camaro. But I wonder where I would land if I wasn't so entrenched in GM products.

During my first few years at GM, when I was a co-op student attending GMI, my cars were

• a '74 Mustang
• a '76 Mustang Cobra 302 / 4-speed
• 2 1979 Mustang Pace Cars (Wanted a 302 but only found a 2.3T, then a few months later found a 302)

Since then it's been all GM cars, but I did spend my last 10 years in Competitor Intelligence. And got to drive some of everything, including all flavors of Mustang, Charger, Challenger, and just about everything else with rubber tires.

I would probably be split between Camaro and Mustang. I think today, Camaro is better at the top of the product line (SS / ZL1 compared to GT / GT350) but at the entry level / mid level I'd probably lean Mustang. Both from performance and appearance standpoint. Exception being RS 1LE. Mustang has nothing in that slot. And now that they've dropped the V6, they probably won't.

Also, from a styling pov, Camaro wins convertible hands down. Camaro convertible with top up looks more "natural" and proportioned than Mustang top up. Top down appearance is a tie. The power up / down at speeds up to 30 mph (50 kph) for Camaro trumps Mustang in a big way.

This is only my 3rd GM product, Only owned one Ford which was a pickup, all others were Chrysler products. All my cars have been good. That's why I always buy American. I don't really have an Issue with Mustang because it would be my second choice if Camaro were not around.

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

Fixed it

The 6 banger Mustang, Camaro, Challenger and Barracuda were chick cars. My mother had 65 Barracuda 6 cly. Her friend had a 68 Camaro 6cly. Yep chick cars.

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by gringo

Do you know anything about the decision making process that led to the rear seat bulkhead being placed too far forward on the Alpha platform?

I read something about it, early on when the 6th gen first came out, but nothing since. I guess it had something to do with the fuel tank placement for rear crash protection. This caused rear seat legroom to become severely compromised over that of the Zeta based Camaro

I know Alpha is smaller, but we're only talking 1-2 inches here and 1-2 inches there. The real improvement in structure and lower curb weight came with using stiffer materials like cast aluminum for the strut tower housings, extruded alloy for the front engine cradle, aluminum dash core support and major suspension components made from aluminum/composite instead of steel.

I'm still not happy with the fuel door opening located right behind the passenger door, but I wonder what the stylists and designers thought of that location?

Probably did it for handling to get close to that 50/50 balance to allow for those good track times along with maintaining a balance outward appearance.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Marty McFlew

The 6 banger Mustang, Camaro, Challenger and Barracuda were chick cars. My mother had 65 Barracuda 6 cly. Her friend had a 68 Camaro 6cly. Yep chick cars.

Back then if you didn't have the V8 the dang car WAS slow. Heck even the V8s had what is now V6 or even t4 performance levels.

If you had a Camaro with the slant 6 and a 2 speed powergluide you got to 60 by next Tuesday.