[SpeedIsLife]

I think if GM could have made a n/a high revving small block with the power they wanted..they would have for the Z06

But they couldn't, they said as much.

Unless GM goes more exotic aka the 5.2 FPC in the GT350 I doubt you'll see a n/a Z anything this generation

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think if GM could have made a n/a high revving small block with the power they wanted..they would have for the Z06

But they couldn't, they said as much.

Unless GM goes more exotic aka the 5.2 FPC in the GT350 I doubt you'll see a n/a Z anything this generation

Very good points. It's fun to speculate though. I think emissions-wise, the days of high horsepower N/A engines from manufacturers may be limited if not over already.

But - if anyone can do it, it is probably GM.

[shakooza]

In regards to specific Z28 sales, it was a failure..

In regards to what the Z28 did for GM, it was a resounding success...

The Z28 created a buzz for GM and the money they spent on it should be considered marketing costs...

The buzz wasnt as loud as the hellcat but the car rags were comparing the Z28 to the Porsche 911 turbo and the GTR. That is huge and it gets you some traction. When you are in the company of those giants it makes a ripple in the market...I know people that visited the lot just to look at the z28 that hadnt stepped on a Chevy lot in decades.

[AirManFL]

I'm going to take a SWAG (superficial wild ass guess) and say they are going to build a z28 in lieu of another z/28. Yes, there is a difference.

Rob

[Fraxum]

I think Chevy benefited from the Z/28 and did the right thing with the options. Like the original 1LE you cannot buy comfort/gadget options so only people who want a track animal will buy it. No one who owns a Z/28 complains about it. They knew what they were buying. And most of these buyers have big money, so many Z/28s will wind up in track garages.

Also the release of the Z/28 gave Chevy a lot of play in the media.

The fact that Z/28s are now slow movers will not hurt all the cred they got with the car as a few hundred cars lying around is no big deal in the car industry.

As mentioned above the only mistake Chevy made was allowing so many to be built. It should have been customer orders only and only allow pre-sales orders from dealers with a Hi-Po rep. I think every vehicle program at GM has to make money and the only way to do that is to sell a bunch of Z/28s. If true it is the only way the car could have been built would be to let the orders flow. The people behind the Z/28 were passionate people who wanted to build an unforgettable car. They got it done.

But remember this, back in the day almost no one wanted to pony up the extra $$ for the L88. Boy it would be nice to have one in the garage now. They made too many Z/28s for that but it will be the rarest 5th gen. I expect the price to drop into the $40Ks and then hold on from there.

Don't expect a CA6 repeat.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think if GM could have made a n/a high revving small block with the power they wanted..they would have for the Z06

But they couldn't, they said as much.

Unless GM goes more exotic aka the 5.2 FPC in the GT350 I doubt you'll see a n/a Z anything this generation

GM said they couldn't get the power numbers they needed for the Z06 and meet emissions with an n/a small block. Who knows what their goal was. That doesn't mean no small block will ever make more than the LT1.

However, I don't think we will see another engine developed only for the Camaro. If GM builds a Grand Sport Corvette, that could be where they develop an LT1 based, higher performance small block.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by rmyers

Here is how I draw the correlation to history. The 1st gen Z/28 had a small block 302, a motor unavailable in any other GM model before or after the 1st Gen Camaro. Could be ordered with a dual four barrel cross ram intake, again unavailable on any other model before or after. If I recall correctly, I think the second Gen Z/28 had new unique motor among the Camaro lineup, the LT1, I am not sure but I don't think it was available in another Camaro at the same time. So GM could build one and put an LT1 in it, but then it really wouldn't be different from the SS. I just believe that each time GM builds a Z/28, it should be a car that sets itself apart from all other Camaro models.

Step back and look at the uniqueness of the 5th Gen Z/28. Heck some parts are even restricted from ordering unless you own a Z/28.

Fast forward today, a small displacement motor with twin turbo, which by GM standards will be a first, as sitting today in the next ATS-V. Since Cadillac is no longer a luxury car company as they were in the sixties, they get to play in the space now. But that motor would likely not have been built for any other car than the ATS-V. Is it even plausable that perhaps the ATS-V would not have been planned were it not also in the plans to share that same technology in another GM vehicle? I think it is.

The 302 was not available in any other car because no other car needed it. The 302 was built for a specific reason that only applied to the Z/28.

The ATS-V has a TTV6 because it is going after the Germans which are going to all small displacement, turbo engines. The Camaro is not so there is no reason to put the TTV6 in a Camaro.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM said they couldn't get the power numbers they needed for the Z06 and meet emissions with an n/a small block. Who knows what their goal was. That doesn't mean it no small block will ever make more than the LT1.

However, I don't think we will see another engine developed only for the Camaro. If GM builds a Grand Sport Corvette, that could be where they develop an LT1 based, higher performance small block.

^^^This^^^

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I think Chevy benefited from the Z/28 and did the right thing with the options. Like the original 1LE you cannot buy comfort/gadget options so only people who want a track animal will buy it. No one who owns a Z/28 complains about it. They knew what they were buying. And most of these buyers have big money, so many Z/28s will wind up in track garages.

Also the release of the Z/28 gave Chevy a lot of play in the media.

The fact that Z/28s are now slow movers will not hurt all the cred they got with the car as a few hundred cars lying around is no big deal in the car industry.

As mentioned above the only mistake Chevy made was allowing so many to be built. It should have been customer orders only and only allow pre-sales orders from dealers with a Hi-Po rep. I think every vehicle program at GM has to make money and the only way to do that is to sell a bunch of Z/28s. If true it is the only way the car could have been built would be to let the orders flow. The people behind the Z/28 were passionate people who wanted to build an unforgettable car. They got it done.

But remember this, back in the day almost no one wanted to pony up the extra $$ for the L88. Boy it would be nice to have one in the garage now. They made too many Z/28s for that but it will be the rarest 5th gen. I expect the price to drop into the $40Ks and then hold on from there.

Don't expect a CA6 repeat.

I was reading this whole thread trying to figure out how to respond to all these comparisons and opinions, then I read yours. I couldn't have said it any better. Following Chevy all my life, I knew Chevy was all about heritage when it comes to the Z/28. That's why I wanted one when it came out in the 5th gen. I hope, that if they make the Z/28 for the 6th gen, it will be limited or made to order.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by Raven87

^^^This^^^

I love all this talk about the Z being an overpriced miss- which it was. Eerily similar to the 69 ZL1, where the RPO equalled the price of the whole car! It is my firm belief they will do another round of 20% off on these to end the pain for dealers paying flooring $$ the one's remaining. I will buy another one just to drive as my current one is in deep storage already. If there ever was a future collectible staring you right in the face it's this one. End of an amazing 50 year run for the Big cube.

[IOMike]

I'm also in agreement that there will be something above the LT1 that is NA. Similar to the LS1-LS6 and it will also find itself in a Corvette and or a ATS-V PLUS (or whatever they call it).

Approx 500hp at the crank and I would be just tickled if it were a 396 cu in.

[HDRDTD]

What about a Gen6 COPO??

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

I agree. The Z2/8 was an experiment. While it succeeded in the magazines, it ultimately failed miserably in sales. I don't think GM will repeat that mistake. It was more of a concept car than anything else.

I don't think we will see a 1LE, either. The base SS already outperforms the Gen 5 1LE, and let's not forget the Gen 5 1LE already outperforms the current gen Mustang. IMO both the Z2/8 and 1LE will be done away with.

I anxiously await the ZL1.

Unless it failed to meet GM's targets, its hard to classify it as a failure. And GMs targets aren't necessarily limited to sales numbers of that model. If it nearly met their sales goal, but drastically exceeded their showroom traffic goal it would still be a success in GMs eyes. A halo car is about selling the entire lineup, not selling itself.

And GM doesn't have to wait until there is something beating the Camaro to greenlight something more. They know that there are people out there who want more than a regular SS, regardless of how good it is. If nothing else, those buyers will want to beat other Camaros.

Originally Posted by slacker

In my opinion GM really put themselves in a corner with the Z28- now every one they come out from here on out will be compared to the monster they built, and it will ultimately have a low market/high price. What they should have done is called the ZL1 car a Z28, and the Z28 they built should have been called the ZL1. Not that I'm a marketing genius, but the Z28 name itself sells cars, but not when they are 76k for a Camaro.

No. The ZL1 was going to be a Z28 but the Camaro folks realized that it did not fit with what a Z28 should be, so they revived the ZL1 moniker and went to work on a track focused monster.

Originally Posted by rmyers

Why would GM not install the same motor being used in the ATS-V for the Z/28? Its a twin turbo V6 and actually fits quite nicely in the historic theme of the 1st generation Z/28. That leaves the some variant of the LT4 for use in the ZL1.

If the Z/28 was a failure in sales figures, the failure was overestimating how many customers would buy one, but lets hope that GM does NOT stop pushing the bar. By all accounts it is an amazing performance car, competing with brands and models that it should not be.

So I think both Z's can exist. GM definitely has the platform and motors in place today to make it happen. The question is will there be enough of a market to support both? I think so. Thats one benefit of having components and platforms that can be shared across brands and models.

We already know the base car is 200lb lighter. How much lighter could the Z/28 be? Look at what the 5th gen Z/28 accomplished with the LS7. Older technology accomplishing great track times through brute force and some technical wizardry going on under the sheet metal. I personally hope the performance group at GM has some more surprises in store.

Worst case scenario, perhaps we will see 0% financing on the Z/28 If that hasn't already happened.

Ron

There isn't really any advantage in using the LF4 for the Z/28. Actually, in many ways its probably worse. Its heavier, the mass is located higher up, won't have the same sort of throttle response as an NA engine, susceptible to heat soak, likely costs substantially more. And for what, gaining 11 hp while losing 11 ft-lbs of torque?

Originally Posted by Denis

I mean unless GM is working on a secret engine no one knows about, you can bet on the LT4 to be in the hi-po model(s).

I wouldn't put it past them to be working on something, either a spiritual successor to the gen III LS6 or the gen IV LS7 would make a lot of sense a mid-level engine in Camaros and Corvettes

Originally Posted by Raven87

If the car was not overpriced and is such a great value then it should have sold better right?

And are those new pieces THAT substantially more than what comes on the ZL1 if you deduct what the ZL1's parts would be that get replaced?

And 'delete options' should drop the price.

No, the Z/28's Waterloo was the pricing vs what it offered most of all.

The engine itself is a few grand more. The brakes are substantially more. The tires are an extra grand for a set themselves. The suspension ... It all adds up. If it isn't worth it to you, thats fine. It doesn't have to be. Thats why there was the SS (plus the 1LE package), the ZL1, and the Z/28 for the 5th gen. Different cars for different buyers.

The problem is that there is only a small market of people who want a super track star Camaro. GM could have watered it down and dropped the price by 30 grand and sold a lot more, but why bother? At that point, you've basically gotten down to a 1LE.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And GM doesn't have to wait until there is something beating the Camaro to greenlight something more. They know that there are people out there who want more than a regular SS, regardless of how good it is. If nothing else, those buyers will want to beat other Camaros.

Bolded is me. I can appreciate the SS but part of the reason I love my 1LE so much is I have seen a handful since they came out. I would prefer to buy another 1LE if they build it. If they don't, I would consider the regular SS.