[oldman]

Originally Posted by antimatr

Here's a previous post of mine outlining the problems I've had with my Challenger:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...90#post8848690

As for my 4th gen, it was a '95 which I bought back in '98 as my first car. Exterior fit and finish was about the same as my Challenger (which was to say, pretty damn lacking...at least I didn't have to worry about rust from SMC body panels...). I also went through three Opti-sparks, a water pump, a fuel pump, driver side power window motor (made drive-thrus real fun...) had my interior spontaneously disintegrate once the car reached its 10th birthday, and at the end, had a real main seal leak.

Still, looking back, I don't really have any regrets aside from selling it (even with all the trouble I had with it, I wanted to keep it alongside my next car). Just hope GM's stepped up it's QC game over the past 20 years...

well the OptiCrap was um not good. You could also say Dexacool known as Mississippi Mud. At least yours had an external slave, the 98 LS1 had an internal slave that was a real issue. I worked on both Lingenfelter 383s with the same slave issue.

[RenegadeXR]

I was listening pretty closely to the reviewer in the YouTube video in post #17 and he seemed to raise some pretty fair points. Toward the end however, there were a ton of red flags of personal bias such as saying the Challenger felt like a safe car and that the Camaro was questionable. Although the NHTSA has yet to rate the 6th gen Camaro, the 5th gen had a 5 star crash rating. I'd imagine GM shot for the same rating, but it is a totally different car built on a totally different architecture so we'll have to see. The size of a vehicle doesn't imply safety, at all, just the psychological sense of it.

As far as the trunk goes: 16 cubic feet in the Challenger vs 9 in the Camaro is an extremely bitter pill to swallow. The Challenger also has a more traditional design where the opening starts much lower on the rear of the car, so it looks like you can load packages without a problem.

I haven't paid much attention to the navigation system in the refreshed Challenger. I test drove one in 2013, and I can say it was a total piece of crap back then and very ugly. The new interior seems better, but Dodge's refusal to adopt Apple Carplay really sucks. Carplay at least gives you some future-proofing on the infotainment since you can always upgrade your phone, but you can't upgrade your nav system. Did I mention this really sucks?

His comments on how the HUD wasn't useful are kind of baffling. This was one of the best features of the Camaro when I first test drove one years ago, and when I drive a car without one, it feels like I am missing a critical component of the information and gauge cluster. Nothing beats having data displayed heads-up in your line of sight, and aftermarket products are starting to fill the gap while the rest of the auto industry drags its feet on this. I will make a fairly safe bet that more cars will have an integrated HUD in the future.

The visibility concerns in the Camaro are definitely valid. Anybody who claims otherwise is somebody who already bought one and learned to cope with it, so they downplay how bad it is. I test drive a 2016, and the rear window is even worse than on the 5th gen because the rear seats (which are useless) have taller backs to them. Either that, or some other design change shifted them in such a way that they overlap more of the already-dimuititive visibility.

I think the reality of the fact is that the Challenger is going to steal a lot of marketshare from 5th gen Camaro owners looking to upgrade. It's cheaper and more true to its muscle car roots. There was a certain segment of Camaro buyers who looked for those qualities, and the 6th gen is a turnoff to them. They don't care about track times or weight savings. I think it shows by the fact that the Challenger's marketshare has risen pretty sharply in the last year from a distant 3rd place to now being almost equal on sales with the 2016 Camaro, despite the Challenger technically being on the market since 2008 almost unchanged. It's because Dodge has frankly done an amazing job taking an existing product that's always kind of been underrated and considered an underdog, gave it a minor but very much needed refresh, and offered many trim levels at different price points that appeal to a very wide audience.

Sales as of March 2016:

[ckaram]

I may be jumping ship to a Scat Pack Shaker 392. I drove a new SS and it was great, but small.

I'm a DD dude, so the ability to put people in it along with the cool retro look outweighs the track and handling superiority of the Camaro, and I don't race anyway. If my favorite sales professional of all time, Becky Doyle, is reading this come at me and convince me otherwise

Only concern is the build quality of both. I'm waiting for the 17 Camaro for any new model kinks to get worked out in case I flip flop. The concerns expressed about the Chally build quality have me pausing...

[oldman]

Like I said it was rather silly stuff on my 2 Challengers. Nothing mechanical other than the bushings, and bushings are still a problem if you are always on it. They are much better, mine were / are 2009 and 2010. Every few years dodge has upgraded the bushings, but they are still heavily loaded.

I don't have MR shocks on the SS, I have Mopar springs on my Challenger with Bilstein (not OEM). The Challenger has a better ride. Handing, the Camaro in all versions offers a significantly better handling package vs anything on the Challenger OEM of any aftermarket. I prefer the Challenger's look, I prefer the SS's interior quality by a HUGE margin.

Build quality, I have noticed no build quality with the SS. I agree with the above poster, any 4th gen Camaro was rippled below the body line, they just were. The Challengers for the most part have ripples in the body. The SS is perfectly straight, I have an excellent eye. I figure one day I'll just pay a shop $3500 and dewave the entire body on the Challenger.. but that is years down the road. Most people can't tell especially after some door dings which is inevitable on a DD.

[ckaram]

I went ahead and ordered a Scat Pack Shaker. Always dug the Challenger look and Mopars in general. I'm such an LS/LT motor fan that I could see myself coming back in a heartbeat though...

If the SS sedan wasn't so pricey it would have been more tempting. As it is, I was able to get employee pricing on the Challenger which put the Scat Pack Shaker in the low 40's and I loaded it up!

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by ckaram

I went ahead and ordered a Scat Pack Shaker. Always dug the Challenger look and Mopars in general. I'm such an LS/LT motor fan that I could see myself coming back in a heartbeat though...

If the SS sedan wasn't so pricey it would have been more tempting. As it is, I was able to get employee pricing on the Challenger which put the Scat Pack Shaker in the low 40's and I loaded it up!

I looked at some SS sedans today and e-mailed some dealers.. Some of them are selling leftover 15s for 37k.. That's down from 49. Only downside is you'll only find it in an automatic, but that's a heck of a deal.

[ckaram]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

I looked at some SS sedans today and e-mailed some dealers.. Some of them are selling leftover 15s for 37k.. That's down from 49. Only downside is you'll only find it in an automatic, but that's a heck of a deal.

You nailed my main issue...I'm a sucker for 3 pedals. I looked at some 15s with M6 and they're still 3K more than what I'll pay for the loaded Scat Pack.

[RuthleSSchevy]

The Gen6 in normal everyday sandy, bumpy, uneven street conditions will be and is by leaps and bounds the better driver. Gm did an excellent job by taking the best qualities of a Cadillac & Corvette to make the new Camaro... Its now a german sports coupe competitor, sure feels like it. Let the Challenger be a muscle car, stop trying to make it compete with something it is not.

Oh and someone wake up the Mustang GT design team, they fell asleep behind the wheel again... Or perhaps its the RT they are after?

[ChefBorOzzy]

Drove a Chevy SS and a 2SS Camaro back to back tonight.. SS left me underwhelmed. I swear the Camaro rode better. Only thing I didn't like about the Camaro was the seat recline.

[GTIanZ28]

I commented elsewhere that I had a RT Challenger owner wave me past yelling out the window "I just want to hear it".

Was a great interaction with a cool car guy.... Who cares if it's a mustang, gti, Subaru or whatever. Seemed like a cool guy.

That said it was a RT 370 hp 5.7l v8 in a 4000+lb car.

Looking at the numbers shouldn't the V6 Camaro be a drivers race vs a RT challenger?

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by RuthleSSchevy

Oh and someone wake up the Mustang GT design team, they fell asleep behind the wheel again... Or perhaps its the RT they are after?

you don't want to go there...

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you don't want to go there...

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by GTIanZ28

I commented elsewhere that I had a RT Challenger owner wave me past yelling out the window "I just want to hear it".

Was a great interaction with a cool car guy.... Who cares if it's a mustang, gti, Subaru or whatever. Seemed like a cool guy.

That said it was a RT 370 hp 5.7l v8 in a 4000+lb car.

Looking at the numbers shouldn't the V6 Camaro be a drivers race vs a RT challenger?

Yep think we have someone who ran 13.6 in a V6 already.

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[RuthleSSchevy]

Why whats over there? What do you all expect, this is a "VS" forum on a Chevrolet Camaro Website? Doh! Lighten up

Ive been a chevy guy for many years, but the new Scat Pack really reminds me of that 60s Muscle. A serious street bruiser, not a sports car. I could see owning both and enjoying them in different ways and not taking too much shit for it. Well except from the wives anyways