[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Made some fixes to that since you had them out of order and added the important "detuning era" when the Corvette was protected aggressively. Maybe it still is to some extent but there's clearly a change in the old behaviors.

Also it should be noted the LS9 never appeared in a Vette either. The LSA was developed from groundwork on the LS9 (Yes I know there are major differences but they both represented the first S/C GM engines of the modern era). So maybe a 2019 Camaro won't get the same engine in the new ZR1, but it may get another derivative like the LSA. That definitely fits past history at least. Could end up being a replacement for the LT4 altogether. But I am more interested in rumors of a DOHC NA motor making north of 500hp for the C8. Which is much easier to see trickling down to the Camaro at some point.

Also the LS9 is the only example a halo Vette engine not making it to a Camaro. Even the original LT4 made it's way into a few anniversary Camaros in '97, but again...as the Vette switched to a new engine the LS1.

LS6 from C5Z06 never officially made it into Camaro either, but also partly because the Camaro was axed.

True that could very well happen. Back to our regularly scheduled programing.

[catdog]

Ok, more bad news, it appears some sharp observers on the mustang6g website noticed that the front splitter on the H2H GT350R (a dealer installed part after car arrives from shipping) is incorrectly mounted and is hanging with exposed mounting points...

So there is a possibility that the GT350R was actually handicapped by bad aero in the track test...

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by catdog

Ok, more bad news, it appears some sharp observers on the mustang6g website noticed that the front splitter on the H2H GT350R (a dealer installed part after car arrives from shipping) is incorrectly mounted and is hanging with exposed mounting points...

So there is a possibility that the GT350R was actually handicapped by bad aero in the track test...

Yea, that was it. That's the ticket.

[90503]

Originally Posted by catdog

Ok, more bad news, it appears some sharp observers on the mustang6g website noticed that the front splitter on the H2H GT350R (a dealer installed part after car arrives from shipping) is incorrectly mounted and is hanging with exposed mounting points...

So there is a possibility that the GT350R was actually handicapped by bad aero in the track test...

Probably it's more of a "real world" factor for the rawness plus column...lol....

If Ford engineers were involved, that might explain it...

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by catdog

Ok, more bad news, it appears some sharp observers on the mustang6g website noticed that the front splitter on the H2H GT350R (a dealer installed part after car arrives from shipping) is incorrectly mounted and is hanging with exposed mounting points...

So there is a possibility that the GT350R was actually handicapped by bad aero in the track test...

I saw that too. So now they have a reason that it was slower. So if it broke during the test, it will break again maybe and always be slower.

Maybe try a professional that still races and they can get a better time for both cars. Go once a month and get an average for 3 months. And see what shakes out.

[detltu]

I haven't gone back and looked, but I wonder if this is the exact same discussion that happened back when they tested the 12 ZL1 vs. the 302 LS. I suspect it is.

There seems to be a repeating pattern:
Ford releases track car (302 LS), Chevy releases faster supercharged GT (ZL1),Ford releases faster supercharged GT (GT500), Chevy releases faster track car (Z/28), Ford releases next generation faster track car (GT350R), Chevy releases faster SC GT (ZL1)...

This time Chevy broke the mold a little with the ZL1 1LE in releasing a track focused SC car. Now we wait for the GT500 which is the only car so far that can be "fairly" compared.

The ZL1 wasn't a fair comparison to the 302LS because the ZL1 is supercharged. The 302 LS was old technology by the time the Z/28 came out and the Z/28 was an old chassis when the GT350R came out. The ZL1 is supercharged so it's not a "fair comparison to the GT350R, and by the time the Z/28 comes out the GT350R will be old technology again.

I think we've got the excuses pretty well covered. Hope Ford doesn't wait too long with the GT500 or the Zl1 will be old technology too. They were pretty timely with the 5th gen.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by catdog

Ok, more bad news, it appears some sharp observers on the mustang6g website noticed that the front splitter on the H2H GT350R (a dealer installed part after car arrives from shipping) is incorrectly mounted and is hanging with exposed mounting points...

So there is a possibility that the GT350R was actually handicapped by bad aero in the track test...

Oh really? So they can tell the front splitter was mounted incorrectly during the hotlap when there was no outside camera footage...fascinating.


FYI they are using only the image on the video preview. Who knows when it was shot and like someone mentioned, could have bashed a curb during their road review.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Correct but drivers being equal the ZL1 is still going to wear its tires faster. My point is over an endurance event that 0.4 lap advantage won't be a constant as some people seem to believe.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Do you think so? Because of the power and weight? I would assume they would probably be pretty close because of the softer tread on the GT350R. I agree it wouldn't consistently be 0.4 seconds faster. It would be kind of interesting to see a 10 lap average or something. Unfortunately I don't have my own show to test this kind of stuff. I would be testing drivers of different skill levels, different tires, all kinds of crap. Unfortunately I can only test my car and my keyboard to the extent that my bank account allows.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Oh really? So they can tell the front splitter was mounted incorrectly during the hotlap when there was no outside camera footage...fascinating.


FYI they are using only the image on the video preview. Who knows when it was shot and like someone mentioned, could have bashed a curb during their road review.

Poor forward visibility?

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by catdog

Ok, more bad news, it appears some sharp observers on the mustang6g website noticed that the front splitter on the H2H GT350R (a dealer installed part after car arrives from shipping) is incorrectly mounted and is hanging with exposed mounting points...

So there is a possibility that the GT350R was actually handicapped by bad aero in the track test...

Looks installed correct in this pic. My guess it got damaged, but when?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Also you keep bringing up the the baddest mustang, can only do 12.2 in the 1/4 and is underpowered not special and overpriced. Just want to know what was your opinion on the 75K Z/28 that "only" had 505HP out of a 7.0L and "only" did the 1/4 in 12.3 seconds? Was that car "special"?

I think you misunderstood what I said.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Also you keep bringing up the the baddest mustang, can only do 12.2 in the 1/4 and is underpowered not special and overpriced. Just want to know what was your opinion on the 75K Z/28 that "only" had 505HP out of a 7.0L and "only" did the 1/4 in 12.3 seconds? Was that car "special"?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think you misunderstood what I said.

He also doesn't consider that a 2014 SS only ran 12.9 sec in the quarter so 12.2 was a decent time. Upon further reflection, the 2017 Mustang GT only runs 12.9 too so maybe it is special...for a Mustang.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

He also doesn't consider that a 2014 SS only ran 12.9 sec in the quarter so 12.2 was a decent time. Upon further reflection, the 2017 Mustang GT only runs 12.9 too so maybe it is special...for a Mustang.

The point he was making... and it's a good one... is that the 1/4 mile time for the Z/28 is completely irrelevant because that's not what the car was built to do.

Ditto the 350R.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Also you keep bringing up the the baddest mustang, can only do 12.2 in the 1/4 and is underpowered not special and overpriced. Just want to know what was your opinion on the 75K Z/28 that "only" had 505HP out of a 7.0L and "only" did the 1/4 in 12.3 seconds? Was that car "special"?

Originally Posted by hotlap

He also doesn't consider that a 2014 SS only ran 12.9 sec in the quarter so 12.2 was a decent time. Upon further reflection, the 2017 Mustang GT only runs 12.9 too so maybe it is special...for a Mustang.

The Z28 was respectable. However I was disappointed in the quarter mile numbers of that car (I know it wasn't built for that but I was still disappointed). And for all it could do at the price it was, I personally did not want one. Keep in mind that the Z28 showed up in 14 and would be unchanged for 2015. Fast forward to 2016. After seeing the likes of the 13-14 GT500, the Hellcat, and the Z06 with the ZL1 rumored at that time to receive the LT4 engine, and considering the price point of those cars, yes I do think the GT350 is pathetic. From 15-17 (2 years), the ZL1 returned with more hp, tq, and outperformed the previous generation ZL1, Z28, AND the GT500 in every category all while coming in at a lower price than the Z28. In 2 years from 14-16, the GT350 came out at the same price point and although it outcorners the same older cars, it is slower than the GT500 and just as fast as the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28 in the quarter mile. And the ZL1 comes standard with all creature comforts and even some additional features with it while the GT350R does not. So if Chevy could make such drastic improvements to the ZL1 in just 2 years while pricing the ZL1 similarly or less (than the Z28), how come Ford couldn't make something comparably impressive in that same time? Oh because they were too busy trying to make a special car.