[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

You just need to answer each question to see my point.

There hasn’t been a direct, all data point competitor to the GT350R since the Z28.

There will always be crossover to some degree…hell, there is GT350R crossover to the corvette.

You have to admit though, to say one car HAS to be compared to another simply because of its price and because it’s the only track offering is crazy. Using that logic…if the GT350 didn’t exist…would anyone really be comparing a GT with performance pack to a ZL1 1LE?

V6 1LE vs GTPP
SS vs GT350
SS 1LE vs GT350R

We can do this matchup all day. Even if the Mustangs are faster you can consider the price point of the cars and the fact that these are higher level Mustangs vs lower level Camaros. Now put them together based on their tier.

V6 1LE vs GT
SS vs GTPP
SS 1LE vs GT350
ZL1 vs GT350R
ZL1 1LE vs...

In each case the Camaro will either match or beat the Mustang.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please stop you are making sense here which is not allowed.

Do you want a 1-2 lap wonder (ZL1) which will get slower lap after lap, or do you want a dedicated track car which may be slower the first few laps but will maintain its lap times for the duration GT350R and Z28. If you were to ask Randy this question what would his response be? Maybe somebody can ask him

Where are you getting this info? Because this is the second time I've seen a comment saying the ZL1 overheats yet I have not seen anyone post info on that fact. The ZL1 does not overheat on the track. It was designed and fitted with 11 heat exchangers to specifically combat overheating. If anything the GT350R has been overheating as stated by a Class Action Lawsuit filed against Ford. So please put up some info on this overheating issue with the ZL1.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That is 100% a fact!

Eh, 1.55 seconds slower around Willow than the R isn't bad at all. And the R is only 0.4 seconds behind the ZL1.

If the GT350R barely beats the 1LE...than the GT350R is even closer to the ZL1.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

They did the comparison because there wasn’t any other options available…which I’m good with. Hell, if you want to compare a camaro against a miata….awesome.

And for the record, most generations of performance belong to the camaro…this isn’t anything new. Chevy guys always claim they are the fastest from the factory, Ford guys claim they have a better aftermarket. In the end, does it really make you feel better if you lost to a mustang that was modified...as if the loss turns into a moral victory? I feel sorry for those that do...as those are the folks that will trade in their 1 year old car in a heartbeat for the new and faster vehicle.

With that said, I would hardly call a 0.4 advantage around willow “laying waste”. The GT350R is a better balanced car with better brakes and wheels. Although, with the ridiculous HP and torque advantage it has, It should lay waste in acceleration….it FI after all.

As it stands, Ford doesn’t make an all-out FI track car…or any mustang with forced induction. The ZL1 and ZL1-1LE equally have no match from the Ford camp.

Which is really odd at this stage right? I personally think Ford was not thinking the Alpha would be so dominant and went back t the drawing board to improve performance of the GT500 when they saw what he ZL1 and ZL1 1LE were capable of. That is pure speculation, but it is odd there is no FI Mustang yet.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Do you want a 1-2 lap wonder (ZL1) which will get slower lap after lap, or do you want a dedicated track car which may be slower the first few laps but will maintain its lap times for the duration GT350R and Z28. If you were to ask Randy this question what would his response be? Maybe somebody can ask him

GT350R overheating
https://jalopnik.com/shelby-gt350-mu...ing-1793541621

ZL1 on the issue of overheating. Quoted from MT by John Lieberman
"Remember those 11 heat exchangers I was talking about? The Camaro ZL1 will not overheat. I tried, but even after six sets of rear tires in four days—not joking—the thunderous V-8 never so much as simmered. Two of those 11 heat exchangers are actually the intercoolers that straddle the supercharger. They are redesigned and repositioned for ZL1 duty."

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...e-squad-goals/

So again, where are you getting your information? Because it seems you have it reversed.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Which is really odd at this stage right? I personally think Ford was not thinking the Alpha would be so dominant and went back t the drawing board to improve performance of the GT500 when they saw what he ZL1 and ZL1 1LE were capable of. That is pure speculation, but it is odd there is no FI Mustang yet.

Honestly, I don't think Ford cares. They put out cars that people like...and that sell. Sure, there is some pride on the line...but profit trumps pride in today's market any day of the week.

As for no FI mustang yet...I think Ford is waiting to phase out the GT350 to have their upper level option priced properly. The voodoo engine is expensive as hell, and as such prices it higher than a comparably powered FI vehicle.

If I was a betting man (which I most certainly am not), I would say the GT500 re-emerges in 2019 for two years before the next gen mustang is released.

IMHO, these will be market timing related decisions...not retaliatory chest thumping decisions.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Honestly, I don't think Ford cares. They put out cars that people like...and that sell. Sure, there is some pride on the line...but profit trumps pride in today's market any day of the week.

As for no FI mustang yet...I think Ford is waiting to phase out the GT350 to have their upper level option priced properly. The coyote engine is expensive as hell, and as such prices it higher than a comparably powered FI vehicle.

If I was a betting man (which I most certainly am not), I would say the GT500 re-emerges in 2019 for two years before the next gen mustang is released.

IMHO, these will be market timing related decisions...not retaliatory chest thumping decisions.

Did you mean to say the Voodoo? I thought an FI version of the Coyote would be the best option from a profit standpoint, but I am not in the know on that. I like Fords engines a lot, and know the Voodoo is obviously expensive but as old as the Coyote is, I didn't think it was expensive.

You are probably right on the timing of the FI Mustang and phasing out the GT350 first.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Did you mean to say the Voodoo? I thought an FI version of the Coyote would be the best option from a profit standpoint, but I am not in the know on that. I like Fords engines a lot, and know the Voodoo is obviously expensive but as old as the Coyote is, I didn't think it was expensive.

You are probably right on the timing of the FI Mustang and phasing out the GT350 first.

Damnit yes. A FI voodoo would be disastrous from a cost standpoint. The Coyote has been proven to be plenty stout to support FI, and is much cheaper than it's Voodoo brother.

Some food for thought...for the 18GT...

"n their testing, the new 3.0L Stage 3 setup on a 10-speed automatic 2018 Mustang made 755rwhp and 580 rwtq, which equates out to about 940hp and 725ft/lb, ALL ON 93 OCTANE. How about them apples? If that’s a wee bit too much for you, the Stage 1 base kit still makes 775 engine horsepower and even comes standard with a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty. The Mustang kits will be available in Stage 1, 2 or 3 as well as a Tuner kit sometime in December (as always, Lethal Performance will be THE place to get them!)."

https://www.lethalperformance.com/20...ercharger.html

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Eh, 1.55 seconds slower around Willow than the R isn't bad at all. And the R is only 0.4 seconds behind the ZL1.

If the GT350R barely beats the 1LE...than the GT350R is even closer to the ZL1.

Around Willow? The SS 1LE did the exact same time as the GT350R at WS. WTF are you talking about?

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Around Willow? The SS 1LE did the exact same time as the GT350R at WS. WTF are you talking about?

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclar...t-drivers-car/

Same driver, same day...which you are so fond of. And hey, it's even a magazine time!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclar...t-drivers-car/

Same driver, same day...which you are so fond of. And hey, it's even a magazine time!

1 - That wasn't Willow.
2 - It wasn't 1.55 seconds, it was 1.33 seconds.
3 - Like I said before, none of us have a problem with the R being faster than the SS 1LE on some tracks. It is a level up and more expensive. You are struggling because the R can't beat the Camaro that is in it's same tier and because on the same tier level no Mustang can beat a Camaro.

4 - You're comparing SS 1LE vs GT350R times on one track and trying to find a correlation between that and ZL1 vs GT350R track times on a completely different track. What kind of nonsense is that?

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

1 - That wasn't Willow.
2 - It wasn't 1.55 seconds, it was 1.33 seconds.
3 - Like I said before, none of us have a problem with the R being faster than the SS 1LE on some tracks. It is a level up and more expensive. You are struggling because the R can't beat the Camaro that is in it's same tier and because on the same tier level no Mustang can beat a Camaro.

4 - You're comparing SS 1LE vs GT350R times on one track and trying to find a correlation between that and ZL1 vs GT350R track times on a completely different track. What kind of nonsense is that?

Apology, Languna.

As it stands, it is the only comparison out there between the 1LE and GT350R with the same driver on the same track on the same day.

Your ability to believe track times on completely different days from a single data point...and yet not trust any 1/4 mile times from "off the lot" MY18 GTs amazes me. People see what they want to see.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Honestly, I don't think Ford cares. They put out cars that people like...and that sell. Sure, there is some pride on the line...but profit trumps pride in today's market any day of the week.

As for no FI mustang yet...I think Ford is waiting to phase out the GT350 to have their upper level option priced properly. The voodoo engine is expensive as hell, and as such prices it higher than a comparably powered FI vehicle.

If I was a betting man (which I most certainly am not), I would say the GT500 re-emerges in 2019 for two years before the next gen mustang is released.

IMHO, these will be market timing related decisions...not retaliatory chest thumping decisions.

You're right, Ford doesn't care. People still buy what they offer for some odd reason. It is starting to wear on people though. I thought I was being harsh in some of my previous posts. Nothing I have said holds a candle to some of whats being said on their own forum right now about the lack of comparable offerings and situations like having to add coolers to the PP2 just so it can perform its intended purpose.

I honestly think while Ford doesn't care, they can only play this game so long until they are just looked at as the 3rd and last option.

I am a bit upset myself, and have said that before. I love the GT350 looks and engine, and now that you can grab a lightly used 2017 for $50K, I REALLY want one. I have been eyeing a Lighting Blue one and keep trying to convince myself that mine would be fine, it wont bet just another sad customer story to go along with all the rest. UGH!!! Why Ford Why?!?!?!

Playing this 'sales' game wont always net a win for Ford. I think they are slowly being put on notice, I hope they listen.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Apology, Languna.

As it stands, it is the only comparison out there between the 1LE and GT350R with the same driver on the same track on the same day.

Your ability to believe track times on completely different days from a single data point...and yet not trust any 1/4 mile times from "off the lot" MY18 GTs amazes me. People see what they want to see.

Agreed, comparing times from diff days etc is futile. That said, it happens everywhere. There is a thread on M6G dedicated to JUST that in fact.

I am starting to see why you're hanging out here HAHAHAHA. Its made for some fun convo, that's for sure!!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

They did the comparison because there wasn’t any other options available…which I’m good with. Hell, if you want to compare a camaro against a miata….awesome.

And for the record, most generations of performance belong to the camaro…this isn’t anything new. Chevy guys always claim they are the fastest from the factory, Ford guys claim they have a better aftermarket. In the end, does it really make you feel better if you lost to a mustang that was modified...as if the loss turns into a moral victory? I feel sorry for those that do...as those are the folks that will trade in their 1 year old car in a heartbeat for the new and faster vehicle.

With that said, I would hardly call a 0.4 advantage around willow “laying waste”. The GT350R is a better balanced car with better brakes and wheels. Although, with the ridiculous HP and torque advantage it has, It should lay waste in acceleration….it FI after all.

As it stands, Ford doesn’t make an all-out FI track car…or any mustang with forced induction. The ZL1 and ZL1-1LE equally have no match from the Ford camp.

FYI... Guys modify Camaros too. When you pull up next to a SS you know it can bring it. With a GT you have to look if it's a PP2, A10, Drag Mode, Michelin Pilot Sport...