[Speedofsound]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

He noted whp, not bhp.

The BOSS302 (LS) vs GT500 looks like:

. . . . . . . . . . . . BOSS302 . . . .GT500
MT fig-8 . . . . 00:24:60 . . . . 00:24:20
Motown Mile. 00:58:39 . . . . 00:56:19
WS SoW . . . . 01:26:10(LS) 01:27:30
Sachenring . . 01:39:85(LS) 01:38:26
MRLS . . . . . . . 01:41:06 . . . . 01:37:70
VIR GEC . . . . . 03:02:80(LS) 03:00:60

A good friend of mine who big into GMs and owns a shop has had a chance to work on 13-14 GT500s and says their suspension as a big improvement from previous years even though handling was not something they were aiming for.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are not talking about the Tech Pack GT350 with the cooling issues, it is not even offered anymore. Spin this anyway you like. The ZL1 won the Head 2 Head because of its HP advantage over the GT350R, anyone with common sense who read the article can understand that.

Directly from the article "The Camaro is dramatically faster on the front straight", no hp advantage there right?

Again its Fords fault for not having a high hp car out there to compete with the ZL1s.

Presently Chevy has no N/A answer to the R, and Ford has no SC answer to the ZL1s.

LOL, since when do we give credit for having a slower car? The GT350R right now is the direct competitor to the ZL1. They are in the same price range, they are the best that each manufacturer has to offer, and they are both built for the track. Therefore it isn't about having a SC answer for the ZL1 or having a NA answer for the R. It boils down to which one is faster and that is the ZL1. The SS 1LE is known to best the non-R Shelby despite being cheaper and offering more options. And it is completely out of the R's price range...yet it matched the R at Willow Springs. So you can't sway all of the comparisons in your favor. At some point you guys gotta admit defeat or just keep sounding like sore losers. You lost this round. It doesn't mean the fight is over. Ford will swing back and take a round from Chevy. But don't sit here acting like all of a sudden it's a NA vs NA or SC vs SC battle.

[ST1LE]

Well, if we have learned anything in this thread it's that the Mustang guys have run out of excuses for this Generation. Dilly Dilly Boys, we've won this round!!

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You lost this round. It doesn't mean the fight is over. Ford will swing back and take a round from Chevy. But don't sit here acting like all of a sudden it's a NA vs NA or SC vs SC battle.

Hey somebody has to stir the pot once in awhile.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Hey somebody has to stir the pot once in awhile.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Love that movie!

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are not talking about the Tech Pack GT350 with the cooling issues, it is not even offered anymore. Spin this anyway you like. The ZL1 won the Head 2 Head because of its HP advantage over the GT350R, anyone with common sense who read the article can understand that.

Directly from the article "The Camaro is dramatically faster on the front straight", no hp advantage there right?

Again its Fords fault for not having a high hp car out there to compete with the ZL1s.

Presently Chevy has no N/A answer to the R, and Ford has no SC answer to the ZL1s.

The Camaro is dramatically faster EVERYWHERE. Again the R should be compared to the ZL1 1LE. Even so the SS 1LE has matched it on a few tracks being down 70hp and about 30k cheaper. There isn't anything else to say for this generation.

[drew peacock]

lol the mustang is hilarious..
they have a black 2016 ss for sale in a local dealer here parked next to an s550
the mustang looks dreadful..imho the gen6 camaro is the best looking car ever created..so damn handsome.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

He noted whp, not bhp.

The BOSS302 (LS) vs GT500 looks like:

. . . . . . . . . . . . BOSS302 . . . .GT500
MT fig-8 . . . . 00:24:60 . . . . 00:24:20
Motown Mile. 00:58:39 . . . . 00:56:19
WS SoW . . . . 01:26:10(LS) 01:27:30
Sachenring . . 01:39:85(LS) 01:38:26
MRLS . . . . . . . 01:41:06 . . . . 01:37:70
VIR GEC . . . . . 03:02:80(LS) 03:00:60

A more direct comparison for this discussion (shoe on the other foot) would be to compare the less powerful NA 2014 Z/28 to the more powerful SC 2014 GT500. The Z/28 wasn't even much lighter. Slaughter.

Regarding the Boss LS vs GT500, you missed Milford 1:59.05 vs 1:59.97. I also don't know many that would argue the GT500 is the better track car...but ok.

Point is that
- power doesn't guarantee anything
- power means more weight
- if you hypothetically give the R power, it aligns to the ZL1-1LE (crickets from Ford)
- the ZL1 is more of a GT car than the 14 GT500
- the 13/14 GT500 was a Boss LS with more power. It didn't gain much so why should we assume a more powerful GT350R will do better?

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

The Camaro is dramatically faster EVERYWHERE. Again the R should be compared to the ZL1 1LE. Even so the SS 1LE has matched it on a few tracks being down 70hp and about 30k cheaper. There isn't anything else to say for this generation.

This is ridiculous.

All of these comparisons are arbitrary.

In all reality, the Z28 and GT350R were directly comparable. Both naturally aspirated, both track oriented. Similarly priced. That is as close as it got.

The current Camaro doesn’t currently have a car offering directly comparable to the GT350R, and Ford doesn’t have an offering comparable to the ZL1 OR the ZL1 1LE.

If I were looking for naturally aspirated, track oriented vehicle….what are the offerings?
If I were looking for an all-out track beast with complete disregard for engine size, displacement or induction type, what are the offerings?

People choose cars for a variety of reasons, it’s absurd to say that any car HAS to be compared to another based on single factors (price, only track model offered etc.).

With the GTPP2 coming out, this is as close as the comparison gets to the SS1LE. Both vehicles have the same power and body as the base V8 models, both are similarly priced and both are track oriented. If one car punches above its weight doesn’t change things here.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

This is ridiculous.

All of these comparisons are arbitrary.

In all reality, the Z28 and GT350R were directly comparable. Both naturally aspirated, both track oriented. Similarly priced. That is as close as it got.

The current Camaro doesn’t currently have a car offering directly comparable to the GT350R, and Ford doesn’t have an offering comparable to the ZL1 OR the ZL1 1LE.

If I were looking for naturally aspirated, track oriented vehicle….what are the offerings?
If I were looking for an all-out track beast with complete disregard for engine size, displacement or induction type, what are the offerings?

People choose cars for a variety of reasons, it’s absurd to say that any car HAS to be compared to another based on single factors (price, only track model offered etc.).

With the GTPP2 coming out, this is as close as the comparison gets to the SS1LE. Both vehicles have the same power and body as the base V8 models, both are similarly priced and both are track oriented. If one car punches above its weight doesn’t change things here.

Just stop. Similar price same generation car vs car The GT PP2 for a short time is a mystery (with no coolers it will go one lap). ALL other Mustangs are SOUNDLY beat by their equivalent Camaro. There is nothing left to argue about. You keep bring up the Z28 and comparing it to the R which is like us comparing the Z28 to the Boss LS. Don't be an ass.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Just stop. Similar price same generation car vs car The GT PP2 for a short time is a mystery (with no coolers it will go one lap). ALL other Mustangs are SOUNDLY beat by their equivalent Camaro. There is nothing left to argue about. You keep bring up the Z28 and comparing it to the R which is like us comparing the Z28 to the Boss LS. Don't be an ass.

I can spec out a $45k Focus, does that make it a direct competitor?
I can spec out a Ford explorer to be $45k, let’s compare that to the SS1LE.
Hell, let’s compare the best chevy and GM has to offer….a Corvette and the Ford GT.

Let me ask you, if I was interested in a naturally aspirated pony car meant for the track in 2015…which vehicles would I be looking at?
If I was interested in a naturally aspirated pony car meant for the track in 2018…which vehicles would I be looking at?
If you were looking for the best track oriented pony car for $75k, what would you be looking at?

People make decisions based off of more than a single data point…and vehicle lineups shift every few years.

The fact of the matter is, there currently huge difference in the lineup between the mustang and camaro. Chevy nuts will continue to try to lineup cars that make the chevy brand look better as will the Ford nuts. The fact of the matter is though, the Z28 and GT350R WERE direct competitors. One no longer exists…and therefore the other has no direct competitor (where all data points line up).

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

I can spec out a $45k Focus, does that make it a direct competitor?
I can spec out a Ford explorer to be $45k, let’s compare that to the SS1LE.
Hell, let’s compare the best chevy and GM has to offer….a Corvette and the Ford GT.

Let me ask you, if I was interested in a naturally aspirated pony car meant for the track in 2015…which vehicles would I be looking at?
If I was interested in a naturally aspirated pony car meant for the track in 2018…which vehicles would I be looking at?
If you were looking for the best track oriented pony car for $75k, what would you be looking at?

People make decisions based off of more than a single data point…and vehicle lineups shift every few years.

The fact of the matter is, there currently huge difference in the lineup between the mustang and camaro. Chevy nuts will continue to try to lineup cars that make the chevy brand look better as will the Ford nuts. The fact of the matter is though, the Z28 and GT350R WERE direct competitors. One no longer exists…and therefore the other has no direct competitor (where all data points line up).

I feel like you and I agree quite often even if coming from other sides, but none of your points above make any sense.

[Speedofsound]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Well, if we have learned anything in this thread it's that the Mustang guys have run out of excuses for this Generation. Dilly Dilly Boys, we've won this round!!

It will be the laugh of a lifetime when I see a Camaro owner get beat by a mustang and proceed to yell at the mustang, “YEA, WELL I WAS FASTER STOCK SO SUCK IT!”. Lmao